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Thread: I Bribed El Cid

  1. #1

    Smile I Bribed El Cid

    I was disappointed when I started playing M2TW that it seemed impossible to bribe rebel generals. I was able to start games playing MTW by bribing El Cid to join my faction. It added an interesting role playing aspect to the game to get a major historical figure as part of my faction - you know, Charleton Heston. In RTW, I was able to scout the campaign screen for promising rebel generals to bribe into my faction. I enjoyed that part of the game, but had no luck in M2TW bribing any rebel generals into my faction.

    I had hoped when starting my first campaign I would be able to offer a princess in marriage, but that turned out to not even be an option. It also was not an option to choose how much money to offer in bribe if the rebel general was not receptive to the idea to begin with. This made it seem totally impossible with a rebel general named character like 'EL Cid The Chivalrous' as my many attempts only confirmed. This only made me more determined to see if it was even possible in M2TW. Of course I had to cheat to get it done (I guess that gives me the 'Winning First' trait), but I found out today it is possible.

    After reviewing extensively the unpacked 'descr_character_traits.txt' file recently released by CA, I tried any number of combinations of 'give_trait' cheats to change El Cid into being more likely to accept a bribe. I don't know if my faction choice made a difference, but I was starting as Portugal (Spain might have been easier and more historically accurate, but I wanted to play a game where the Spanish aristocracy was the enemy, having accepted and allied with the Moorish presence on the Iberian Peninsula, and the rebels were the true Spaniards). Numerous failed attempts to bribe El Cid as soon as I could get a diplomat to the area left me very discouraged. He wouldn't budge even when I turned him into 'El Cid The Lewd'.

    I had already been experimenting modding the basic 'descr_strat.txt' file to automatically start the game with El Cid as a Portugese general and removing some of his army, but those attempts did not work and the game would not even start. The final combination that worked was to mod El Cid's starting position in the game (with a reduced army) to a location right next to Lisbon. Then, during the game, I used 'remove_trait El_Cid' which wiped his entire traits list clean, but left him with his name. I then cheated a diplomat into max diplomatic ability ( the most important diplomat traits for bribing are 'Secrecy 3' and 'SmoothTalker 3'). He responded to my bribe attempt with a request for 18,000 florins which I gladly paid. I gave him back all his traits and more after converting him to my faction so he is still the hero he always was (he even looks a little like a young Charleton Heston). I also threw in an age reduction mod of about 17 years because I intend to marry him into my faction with one of my future princesses and have him "go forth and multiply" at some later date. Right now, he's just a supergeneral.

    It might have worked using just the 'give_trait' and 'remove_trait" cheats during gameplay without modding the 'descr_strat.txt' file, leaving him at his original location of Valencia and with his original army units, but I was so happy to finally achieve my goal, I haven't experimented to see if it would work. Besides, I worked so long to find the right combination that worked, and the age reduction was an added bonus from modding the file. It was a simple matter of a couple turns to put El Cid back into his recently Portugese conquered home of Valencia - complete with his newly found super loyalty to his new anti-Spanish, anti-Moorish King. Now I can start playing my game with the scenario I desired.

  2. #2
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    Aww... I thought you had found a way without modding, oh well...

    Not judging by the way...

    It also was not an option to choose how much money to offer in bribe if the rebel general was not receptive to the idea to begin with.
    I think this occurrs when you have nowhere near enough money to even attempt. To get the options you must have sufficient money to attempt the bribe in the first place (it is just not guaranteed to succeed).

    I did like the changing they made in RTW's patches to make bribing harder (it was rediculously easy to strip the other Roman faction of their generals once you had a decent economy in 1.0). I see they have presisted in M2TW...

    I do remember always bribing El Cid if I plated Spain, or the Welsh bowmen if playing England in MTW but it is simply not economically viable in the M2TW early game.
    Last edited by Bob the Insane; 12-08-2006 at 11:30.

  3. #3
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    It is a bit over the top. I am playing the Moors, and I have conquered entire Iberian penninsula within 30 turns. I used blitzkrieg with lot of mercenary units. When I conquered all their cities, lot of their troops turned rebel (1 full stack, 6-7 stacks with just a couple of units). Of course, I had to disband the mercenaries afterward to save my economy. So after that I had weak military and lots of rebels on my lands. Rather than waiting to build up my armies I tried to bribe them. First I went for the ex-portuguese and spanish family members. The refused flatly. Ok, they are family members. But then I tried bribing those stacks that had no generals and only a couple of units.
    1 militia spearmen and two units of peasants,for example. They all refused. I had about 45-50,000 florins. I doesn't matter if I tried to bribe two units of peasants, or two units of archer militia, they refused to even discuss it.

    Does it have something to do with how good your diplomats are? I used guys who had 3-4 ranks in diplomacy.
    It is viable the family members (generals) refuse to be bribed because they are loyal (even though they have no one to be loyal to, since they are rebels), but being unable to bribe two units of rebel peasants even though I have around 50,000 florins??? Come on...

  4. #4
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian
    1 militia spearmen and two units of peasants,for example. They all refused. I had about 45-50,000 florins. I doesn't matter if I tried to bribe two units of peasants, or two units of archer militia, they refused to even discuss it.
    That just sounds bizarre...

    If you can replicate it then it could be worth putting in the bug list...

  5. #5
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    In my English campaign I was able to bribe 2 peasants and 2 peasant archers with a skill 0 diplomat for around 10k or so. So maybe there is something else involved...
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  6. #6

    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    What's the point in even having bribes in the game if it costs 10k to bribe 4 rubbish units? Cost to wipe them off the map is about 1/15th of that....

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    Bribing varies a lot. I've been able to bribe Wales as the Brits for ~6k (several units+settlement)

    On the other hand, late game as Turks, I had over 1 million florins and couldn't bribe a half stack of random rebels with a reasonably good diplomat (rank 6)

  8. #8

    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    [QUOTE=Bob the Insane]Aww... I thought you had found a way without modding, oh well...
    QUOTE]


    I'm not sure if I might have accomplished the bribe without changing anything in the descr_strat file. The location change of El Cid could have been done with another cheat (move_character El_Cid x,y), and I don't know if he might have left his army back at his castle when he transported if I had tried that.

    I'm not sure if the size of his army makes a difference, whether or not he's garrisoned in a castle or city, which faction attempts the bribe, or if it was just erasing his traits while maxing out my diplomats ability. I suspect game difficulty setting has much to do with it. I started this game at Medium campaign difficulty.

    I had tried cheating him many negative character traits that should have increased his susceptibility to bribery such as 'Corrupt', 'Lewd', 'Epicurean', 'Disloyal', 'Gambling' all with no luck. I tried making him a paralytic drunk. I tried 'Xenophilia 3' hoping he would be more receptive to my approach. I even tried using 'FearsPortugal 3' and parking a larger army right next to him as well as attempting all of the above together to no avail. I spent enough time on it yesterday, accomplished my goal, and I have no more wish to experiment further.

    The only elements that could not have been done with cheats in game without modding any file were the age change and taking away about 1/2 his starting units.

  9. #9

    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    I forgot to mention I did leave him homeless before the bribe by swinging another General down from Pamplona to capture his empty castle while he was out.

    By the way, Wikipedia had some interesting info on The Cid.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cid

  10. #10
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    as far as bribes in general go: i have seen several cases when AI bribes my lone units in transit between castles (stopped sending units without a general after that). i guess, the current discussion implies the AI is wasting loads of cash on these bribes... not really smart.

  11. #11

    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    Bribing per se does not seem impossible, I just assume that there a more factors playing into it than a full purse. I was able to bribe a half-stack army of Sicilians ideling near one of my unprotected cities. Yet bribing an Rebel general...just does not happen

  12. #12
    Member Member Aks K's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    Bribing an rebel general (or any enemy general) is impossible if all you male characters have 4 "children". So make sure that there are some slots open for general you want to bribe.
    Anyway bribing seems awfully expensive to me.

    Aks K
    Last edited by Aks K; 12-08-2006 at 19:18.


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  13. #13
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    Bribing a general in a town basically means you are trying to get both the general AND the town, which is why it might be even more expensive. When you moved him out of the town you effectively lowered the cost dramatically.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    What maybe easiest is to change him to a bachelor and marrying off a princess to him.

    The Spanish once did that to me. They start with 2 princesses and stole one of my bachelor generals (man of the hour 6* and lots of great bonuses) by marrying him. I was at war with the Spanish at the time. Note that this way you only get the general and not the stack.

    However, that's all you really want, right?

  15. #15
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    Quote Originally Posted by Aks K
    Bribing an rebel general (or any enemy general) is impossible if all you male characters have 4 "children". So make sure that there are some slots open for general you want to bribe.
    Anyway bribing seems awfully expensive to me.

    Aks K

    ohh... good point...

  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Bribed El Cid

    I suppose I am one of the few that thought that the original bribes in RTW were about right. Then they went out of sight...which was not the way it was...lots of armies were bribed or would even switch before a battle both in Roman and Medieval times. As with so many things it seems they go from one extreme to another. I think the first outcries were because someone had a general bribed away...now we have this imposable to bribe peasants for under 12K thing.

    I know I bribed a unit of rebels I couldn't see the unit before...17K it cost to find I had peasant archers. I thought I had a general at that price

    But the squeaky wheel get the grease so some nimrod says it a bug!!! And of course with the outcry CA dutifully changed it.

    I may whine about some things I don't like but usually I am not hoping for a fix... Usually the "fix" is worse than the problem...so mod it your self.


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