Would you want STW2 or Asian TW?

[TheFluff]

Well i was browseing the CA fourms because i went to there website hopeing to see if they added the patch (hahaha!) into the news/update section. Anywho i went to the fourms page also to see what the masses were saying so to spea, Anyway i came across a thread talking about STW2/Asia total war and suprizeing about HALF the people who posted said they would find it "boring"! I was somewhat shocked, because these same people found the europen era more intreating. I mean im no historian and im not a history major, but i know for a fact that some of the battles during the chinese and japanese fudal eras, or any era, had more combatant then entire europen towns during the rennisance!


The only problem i see with any of this is simply that the japanese fudal era starts around 1185 and could be compleate with a mongol invasion (possibly) and then going across the sea to korea, eastern china, mabye even some SE asia areas like the phillipines and such, but wouldent include the entire asian content, and japan would be the foucs with the majorty of factions fighting being japanese clans, and possibly the emporor as a sort of "pope" figure for game play.mechinacs sake.However, China TW would have to be set earler i belive, mabye during the three kingdoms era simply because from a gamer POV, you have many more factions, many more options. The draw back would be that japan wouldent be the same as in STW and im not sure how its tech tree would pan out or units and such. So basically you have to choose one or the other, not really both although china or japan can be included in either game the culture and empire would look different depending on the era.


All this aside would you want a STW2 or Asian TW and why or why not? I wish i knew how to make a poll but reguardless what do you think

[Piko]

ATW, I don't like the shogun era...

[FactionHeir]

So you are saying S2TW would not be an Asian TW?

Personally, I'd like to see something liked Three Kingdoms: Total War.
There's a wealth of history about that and it lasts reasonably long and would have a large map.

[Burakius]

samurais would be cool..

and assasins would be ninjas...

I think they should do medieval total war 2.. and then with asia along withit. that way both will be happy..

[unknown_user]

I'd love to see either of these. :) Shogun was always my favorite, and to have it updated to todays graphics and gameplay would be wondrous.

[Aelwyn]

samurais would be cool..

and assasins would be ninjas...

I think they should do medieval total war 2.. and then with asia along withit. that way both will be happy..

So you're saying it should be Entire World: Total War?

Reminds me too much of other games that try to cover basically all of human history, and don't have much depth at all.

Not much of an appealing game type to me, but some obviously like it. I don't think that's really what the TW series is about. I'd like to see a campaign based on China though.

[Oaty]

I'm all for the oriental aspect but this should go in the entrance hall as it is total war related but not specific to any game

[gingergenius]

i know this is a long shot but how about a Time Total War???

The map would cover the whole world, yet you'd have to explore to find stuff out, and say if you're a European faction you wouldn't be able to go to the Americas until 1492 or something.

It would not get stupid like other all-time games like Empire Earth where you end up with tanks fighting knights, because your faction's progression would be controlled as in the previous TW games.

You'd start at 1000BC or something and obviously the Greek/Roman/Egyptian/Chinese factions would be the most powerful to start off with but each faction would have different strong points - for the English it might be the imperial age, and they'd have more advanced ships than anyone else. New factions would emerge all the time, and it would be cool to play as Aztecs and have to wait for Europeans to arrive before having access to cavalry.

If you don't want to play the whole campaign you could select to start, for example, from the mid 15th century and play as one of the Shogunate Japanese factions, unite Japan and go onto conquer the rest of the world.

I know it would take ages and would need a lot of memory, but it would be good as well. anyone agree??

[TheFluff]

So you are saying S2TW would not be an Asian TW?

Personally, I'd like to see something liked Three Kingdoms: Total War.
There's a wealth of history about that and it lasts reasonably long and would have a large map.

It would be,but the Threekingdoms era is set around what, 150 AD? thats about 1000 years before the japanese fudal era, so its one or the other.

I'm all for the oriental aspect but this should go in the entrance hall as it is total war related but not specific to any game.

I cant edit my posts, but it should be implied that this would run off the current TW engine. The Entrance hall is off topic and most posts never get read there, so it would be silly to post this there, and the question remains, would people play an Asian/Japanese style TW game with the current TW engine be it a mod or a CA backed expansion or full game.

[Piko]

Cool but definately impossible :p

[FactionHeir]

i know this is a long shot but how about a Time Total War???

The map would cover the whole world, yet you'd have to explore to find stuff out, and say if you're a European faction you wouldn't be able to go to the Americas until 1492 or something.

It would not get stupid like other all-time games like Empire Earth where you end up with tanks fighting knights, because your faction's progression would be controlled as in the previous TW games.

I would imagine by turn 200 the latest you as the human player would have beaten everyone else already, long before a new age dawned. Or else time would just pass way too quickly. I mean M2TW under VH can be beaten in 77 turns and you can own the entire map save the papal states within 110.

[Randarkmaan]

I think something set somewhere in the 2nd or 1st milennim B.C in the middle-east could be exciting, you could have Babylonians, Assyrians, Hittites, Phoenicians (also RTW's Egyptians would fit in) etc, just started reading on that period and it's actually pretty exciting. But then again now that CA has introduced more "casual gamers" to the mix they would probably find the idea of playing almost exclusively as the "sand monkeys" a little "boooooooring".

EDIT: meant "milennium" not "century" stupid me...

[SirGrotius]

I would be interested in a Shogun total war but I think CA would be hesitant to produce another game in this relatively unfamiliar era (at least to a mass audience in NA and Euro).

[Zenicetus]

I'd buy either a STW2 or a China - Three Kingdoms: Total War. I think the major hurdle in selling that to the "masses" isn't so much the unfamiliarity with the cultures, as that it's basically a civil war scenario, where the factions, armies and weapons are going to be very similar on all sides. Part of the fun with the Rome and Medieval series is the wildly varied unit types and interesting matchups. Another Shogun or a China game would be more of a "pure" strategy game, unless CA goes nuts with ninjas and other artificial ways to spice up the differences. Even with that limitation, it wouldn't surprise me if this is the next Total War game.

A classical Bronze Age game could be interesting, and cultures like classical Egypt and Greece are familiar. They could use the RTW/M2TW campaign map and just extend it a bit further into India. But I think the problem might be tactically less interesting battles, since this was mainly the era of big phalanx armies pushing at each other.

Whatever they do, I just hope the next game stays away from the full gunpowder army era, because I don't think it's all that exciting to see ranks of soldiers shooting at each other across a field. Something like a Napoleonic era game would drastically diminish the skull-bashing, close fighting aspect of the Total War series, which I enjoy very much.

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Hmm no thanks. I think it is time to move on to something new.

I think a napoleonic era would rock my boat...

And something smaller scale..(you get bored with the global maps..least I do)...american civil war..but in great depth...proper supply lines...detailed economical and political..with a real time map and no delay zooming into battles..yup..sweet. Proper defences...etc

But I dont know if CA have the guts to go that way...mass appeal and the like. Problem for CA is that they need to start innovating again...and getting really ambitious..not complacent.

TW needs a total re-vamp IMHO...its getting a bit old and familiar

[Quickening]

I wouldn't like an Asian Total War. Im just not interested in that area and I can't relate to it at all.
I don't think CA would re-visit that territory anyway. Shogun was their first game and had to be unique and interesting. Not only was Shogun revolutionary in technical terms but it also covered a pretty ignored area of history as far as games go. Now, they'll play it safe with settings like Rome and Medieval which the Western World is infinitely more familiar with. Basically, now that they have gained their audience, they don't need to give them anything really unique or fresh. Cynical, but true I think.

[Ii Naomasa]

If CA announced a Shogun2:TW that was nothing but really a modified M2:TW with a coat of Sengoku Jidai paint and maybe a bug fix or two, I'd pre-order at least three copies right now. Shogun was the game the game that most excited me to hear about. I'm a student of the period, love samurai films, and also believe that the Sengoku Jidai is truly one of those rare periods in history where you had a number of warring factions where the ultimate goal WAS total domination (Roman expansion is another, both the 7 Kingdoms and 3 Kingdoms periods of China another...).

Expanding the timeline to include the Heian period (specifically the Genpei War) through the Sengoku Jidai would be nice (I love the Genpei War and how romanticized it's become), but the only problem is the great shift in how battles were fought over those periods. In very simplistic terms, the Mongol invasion was pivotal in turning warrior-based armies into soldier-based armies. Also, there were so many rises and falls among the families in power in Japan that trying to create factions that would work in both a 12th century and 16th century environment in Japan alone would give someone a headache. Even the Hojo of one period weren't technically the Hojo of the later period. If CA went the easy route, you'd never hear the complaints, even if so many Westerners are ignorant of what was presented.


But still, visually S2TW would be enticing and also in that its one of those rare times where there really were few long term alliances, which fits the TW engine and AI behavior so well.

[Shahed]

I think they will do S2:TW.

What do I want ? Everything.

And you really went to .com to look for the patch ???

ROFL !

[the_mango55]

No, not Shogun 2.

I found Shogun to be pretty boring, every faction was basically the same.

However, if we had Asian TW, with China, India, Japan, Korea, maybe even Mongols or Huns if it was at the right time, that would be fantastic.

[Bob the Insane]

Personally I could realy go for a S2TW...

It was a fantastic era for a total war game, as it was total victory or nothing and all trade and diplomacy was all based on that premise. And we have a historical end of one faction prevailing over the others.

I really like MTW and M2TW because as a european I can really relate, but I would still love to see S2TW...

They could go totallty bonkers on designing all the units!!!

A sexy 3D map of Japan and some Islands...

In the simplest terms, I would buy that...

[TheFluff]

Fantastic...mods move my post to die a slow death, how nice of them.





As far as a asian based TW game, i cant see how it couldent be better then MTW2 now (and made an expansion) because almost eveey single cathloic faction has the EXACT same units, with mabe give or take 1-3 units, but for the most part there entirly all the same, and the unique units come so late they dont make a difference. To say that asian tw would be boring, would lack unit diversety and such is pretty much saying that MTW2 is the same, but like stated above, almost every faction has the same exact units, just reskinend differently and yet your all still very intrested in the game. Infact MTW2 is a remake of MTW1...so most of you are just blowing hot air with the "its b een done before, leave it be".

I just hope someone creates a MOD for this like they were doing in RTW. It would finally give us something unique and not done over and over again like MTW/MTW2

[Martok]

Well as I said in this thread, I for one would be delighted with a Shogun 2. I would really like to see the next TW game set in China during the Spring & Autumn period, but I would have no problem revisiting medieval Japan.

[naut]

China : Total War, for the win.

[Shahed]

Whatever it is let's hope it's the next engine.

[naut]

Whatever it is let's hope it's the next engine.

Whatever it is lets hope CA spends a lot of effort on the AI

[Warluster]

I would say both have had there good battles, Europe and Asia, Theres battles like THE BATTLE OF HASTINGS POINT which have formed nations, in Europe, in asia, there si an unknown battle 'Featured in THE LAST SAMURAI' about the start of Imperial Japan, they are both historically import in history


There are famous places, in Europe you have good old Roman Italy, from the Roman Empire days, in Asia you have Medieval Japan, which has some intresting buildings, monuments.

Both have had famous people, for Europe there is people like Napoleon and Julius Caeser, in Asia there is Genghis Chan,

I am pointing out here that both have historical points, you just have to find them. PLus no one Continet is the best, both have there history.

[caravel]

I think those that dismiss a possible STW rehash because they are not interested in the era are not really looking into this deeply enough. When I first went out and bought STW I wasn't a fan of Japan or it's culture at any period in history. In fact I knew next to nothing about it. I hadn't read up on it nor had I seen anything on TV about it. After firing up Shogun for the first time and having a go I was hooked. You have to remember that at this time MTW and RTW didn't exist so I had nothing to compare it with. The simplicity of STW was it's greatest strength in my opinion. Yes there were few units, but those units, with the exception of those introduced by MI (Mongol Invasion) were well balanced, each having it's own role or purpose. There were no really redundant units as there were in MTW. The atmosphere was superb, better than MTW's. The immersion factor was spot on. The map, unlike MTW's "physical" map was akin to a paper map used by a general. It wasn't trying to be an RTS, as with RTW, it was a purer Risk style board game with real time tactical battles, and it worked perfectly. I feel that many of today's RTW and M2TW players came to these games for a different reason to the old STW and MTW players before them, which is why STW and MTW don't appeal to them at all. Maybe they have come from other RTS and Civ games? I myself came to STW from role playing games and FPS games, which I no longer play. When MTW was released I was very disappointed with it. The campaign map had become much more involved, which I didn't like. The generals stats, the titles, ships and all of the rest. It took some getting used to, and for nearly a year I abandoned the game. It felt like a cheapened STW Medieval mod with some extra bells and whistles thrown in. Nowadays it's practically the only game I play.

I do think an STW rehash would work if it included a larger map and included parts of china and Korea, or even as some people have said a China or Asia - Total War.

-Edit: For those of you that have played STW you will remember the endgame video where the pieces are pushed into the final province on the risk map. The map shown in the FMV is a highly polished and detailed version unlike the STW or MTW maps (as is usually the case with FMV). This is how I had always envisaged the Risk map's development. It is sad that this type of map was abandoned and replaced with the RTS style map with it's cumbersome functionality and toy like "animated action figures" bawling out in orders confirmations in American accents (like where you click on your "orcs" in Warcraft games). Some people just don't appreciate any level of abstraction and want everything to function realistically and be animated and moving. I know that many (probably the majority) prefer the new RTW map, but as I've said, some of these people gravitated to TW games from a different background and for different reasons.

[naut]

I can always trust you Manco Capac to come up with the right words.

[TheFluff]

I think those that dismiss a possible STW rehash because they are not interested in the era are not really looking into this deeply enough. When I first went out and bought STW I wasn't a fan of Japan or it's culture at any period in history. In fact I knew next to nothing about it. I hadn't read up on it nor had I seen anything on TV about it. After firing up Shogun for the first time and having a go I was hooked. You have to remember that at this time MTW and RTW didn't exist so I had nothing to compare it with. The simplicity of STW was it's greatest strength in my opinion. Yes there were few units, but those units, with the exception of those introduced by MI (Mongol Invasion) were well balanced, each having it's own role or purpose. There were no really redundant units as there were in MTW. The atmosphere was superb, better than MTW's. The immersion factor was spot on. The map, unlike MTW's "physical" map was akin to a paper map used by a general. It wasn't trying to be an RTS, as with RTW, it was a purer Risk style board game with real time tactical battles, and it worked perfectly. I feel that many of today's RTW and M2TW players came to these games for a different reason to the old STW and MTW players before them, which is why STW and MTW don't appeal to them at all. Maybe they have come from other RTS and Civ games? I myself came to STW from role playing games and FPS games, which I no longer play. When MTW was released I was very disappointed with it. The campaign map had become much more involved, which I didn't like. The generals stats, the titles, ships and all of the rest. It took some getting used to, and for nearly a year I abandoned the game. It felt like a cheapened STW Medieval mod with some extra bells and whistles thrown in. Nowadays it's practically the only game I play.

I do think an STW rehash would work if it included a larger map and included parts of china and Korea, or even as some people have said a China or Asia - Total War.

-Edit: For those of you that have played STW you will remember the endgame video where the pieces are pushed into the final province on the risk map. The map shown in the FMV is a highly polished and detailed version unlike the STW or MTW maps (as is usually the case with FMV). This is how I had always envisaged the Risk map's development. It is sad that this type of map was abandoned and replaced with the RTS style map with it's cumbersome functionality and toy like "animated action figures" bawling out in orders confirmations in American accents (like where you click on your "orcs" in Warcraft games). Some people just don't appreciate any level of abstraction and want everything to function realistically and be animated and moving. I know that many (probably the majority) prefer the new RTW map, but as I've said, some of these people gravitated to TW games from a different background and for different reasons.

I agree on all points, very nicely said. On an off note i find that the older games that use the risk style map (like "Lords of the relm", what a classic game, one of the best of its time) have much more emerison for some reason and just FEEL much more epic. When i first played RTW i was turned off by the map and it felt much more like a tatical game and not a "empire building rts".

Sadly enough i think that CA will agree with many people and wont "risk" makeing a game that wouldent market well to there core game group (i suppose people who ironicly enough arent intrested in histrory). I find the threekingdoms era of china, and the Fudal japanese era compleate with mongols and such very intresting. I mean CA LOVES the mongols, this has become evedent, and they are a pretty cool faction, so why not give them some spotlight? STW2 could offer so much more then MTW2 could as far as the "emersion" factor goes. I just cant see how anyone who played VI could not see where im comeing from, if they made an expansion on the vikeing era with england i just couldent see how they (CA) could be turned off to revisting the shogun series via a hefty expansion.

[Martok]

I think those that dismiss a possible STW rehash because they are not interested in the era are not really looking into this deeply enough. When I first went out and bought STW I wasn't a fan of Japan or it's culture at any period in history. In fact I knew next to nothing about it. I hadn't read up on it nor had I seen anything on TV about it. After firing up Shogun for the first time and having a go I was hooked.

Same here. I used to find the history of Asia and Japan to be insanely boring. I had absolutely zero interest in learning more about it....until I played Shogun.

You have to remember that at this time MTW and RTW didn't exist so I had nothing to compare it with. The simplicity of STW was it's greatest strength in my opinion. Yes there were few units, but those units, with the exception of those introduced by MI (Mongol Invasion) were well balanced, each having it's own role or purpose. There were no really redundant units as there were in MTW. The atmosphere was superb, better than MTW's. The immersion factor was spot on.

Well said, Manco. (As Rythmic has already pointed out, you definitely have a way with words!)

For those of you that think a remake of STW would be boring: I used to be one of you guys, and I understand why you feel that way. To be bluntly honest, however, you would be terribly mistaken in believing it--just as I myself was wrong to think so 6 years ago. The era of feudal Japan (and/or China, Korea, Mongolia) is incredibly fascinating, as much as any other period in human history. If MTW deserved a remake, then Shogun definitely does as well.