Imperial Diet

[SwordsMaster]

The fourth Kurfurst of Bavaria waits for silence. He stands among the nobles staring above the heads of the council.


The House of Bavaria seconds the choice of supporting Venice over Milan, and therefore edict 1.4.

I also support the thought of conquering Florence to limit the expansion of other italian factions. But, oh Kaiser, does it not make more sense to grant the italian lands to the House of Bavaria in order to mantain cohesion and better administer them?

Edict 1.18 is supported.

[Lucjan]

Raising a hand quietly and standing, Dietrich interrupts a slow murmur of arguements and inquiries surrounding the territorial disputes between the southern duchies.

Please, if everybody may take a moment to review the Imperial charter as it stands.

And I quote, section 4.3.

The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest).

Let us then backtrack to section 3.9.

The Imperial Diet is presided over by the Kaiser. His rulings are final.

Dietrich looks about the room, casting a nod to his fellow Franconian electors before clearing his throat and beginning again. This time in a rather tenuous tone.

It is, from my interpretation, that these are powers given solely to the Kaiser's will, and therefore not something that can be decided by the vote of the diet. While it is in every Ducal House's interest to pass "suggestions" along to the Kaiser in regards to the distribution of the Empire's lands, we must not forget that the Empire is first and foremost subject to the Kaiser's decisions. We exist to serve, and should not be so swift to forget that ours is a freedom that can easily be taken away. To suggest through the passing of such edicts that the diet has the power to encroach on the Kaiser's ability to make the best choices for the Empire is to insinuate that some positions of power are not fully understood.

I am also concerned that some of you have taken the idea that the diet can pass an edict on the manner in which our honorable dukes order the arrangement of their masons' construction queies. This too is incorrect, as only the duke or count of a territory can determine, for the rest of the chancellor's reign in which said individual ruled, the order of construction for that territory.

Dietrich, trying his best to keep it a neutral remark for the whole of the diet to be more cautious and respectful in their proposals, pauses for a few seconds, turning over in his mind the proper way to put his next statement.


Many of you are young. Many of you still have some time before you're given the full chance to prove your wisdom or mettle for the good of the empire. And in that I believe that perhaps some of your errors are simple matters of youthful misunderstanding. But you will all get it soon. It's a learning experience, and I urge you all to take this oppertunity to learn well.

Dietrich looks then to some of the more senior members of the diet to deliberate on this latest issue. As some quiet discussion between House members continues with no immediate elector standing, he continues on some other matters.

In regards to Venice. I can understand some unwillingness to seek an alliance with them, let alone any Italian state. And by no means did I mean to suggest that the Kaiser is not capable of defending the lands in Italy he's so honorably taken. My only concern was that without Venice as an ally, we would be extremely hard pressed to reinforce you were the states of Italy to come down on you as a whole. You are the life blood of this Empire my lord. To lose you would be a devestating blow. Besides, with Venice being as untrustworthy as it is, we may as well take advantage of their faults early on. Let them break the alliance as the houses more knowledgeable of Italy than myself suggest they will. In that way we are given a significant enough cassus belli to wage war against them with relative impunity. Even the Pope would have a hard time explaining why we should stop aggressive action against them if they break such an alliance.

But that is as far as I will take the matter. Italy is, in fact, moreso the expertise of our southern Dukes. I simply offer my council in good faith.

In regards to the Danube, some seem to have confused the Poles with Magyars...I suggested keeping an eye on Hungary (the Magyars), who border Austria on the east Danube border and have in days not long past caused significant trouble and destruction to the countryside with their raids. The suggestion of monitoring there movements from the river is so as to assure that such things are not allowed to happen again.

But since Poland has been brought up in the discussion, I must opt towards defending these people from any aggression on our part, and insist that we establish peaceful relations with them. I've had the honor of meeting some of these people bound westward in merchant caravans, and must say that they are far from the despicable sort of men that many of our other neighbors seem to be comprised of. Sure the Poles go by somewhat of an awkward name, but in the long run their friendship would be far more beneficial to the Empire than turning them into another enemy. Trade with them could bring in valuable goods from the east and provide us with a friendly counterbalance to the potential growth of Hungary or some of the other far eastern peoples we have all heard tales of. I for one would value these people as a friend, not include them in our ever growing list of potential enemies.

In that respect, I propose Edict 1.19 - By the end of this chancellor's term, a diplomat will be dispatched to open up trade with Poland and exchange map information.

On a final note, I do believe it is also the Kaiser's, and only the Kaiser's, right to determine who his daughter shall take as a husband. I must also force myself to assume that some members of the House of Austria forget that Agnes is indeed Leopold's sister, and that such an, arrangement, would not be in the best interests of either party, let alone the esteem of the Kaiser's family.

And thank you Kaiser Heinrich for extending my message. Dietrich finally clears his throat and sits down.

[OverKnight]

The Third Elector of Bavaria, Gunther of Eichstadt (OOC:No avatar but he needed a name other than TEoB), speaks to the assembly:

There is wisdom in the Steward's words. I second edict 1.19. It is similar but more specific than edict 1.14. Though I hope our diplomat could visit Buda as well.

While I do not trust Milan I will not support 1.17. We have a claim on Milan, but we are not in the position, yet, to fulfill it. The Empire needs trade, florins for troops and buildings. We can still send an agent, edict 1.16, if needed.

I share the concern of Lord Dietrich about edict 1.18, with no land access to our Italian holdings we cannot send reinforcements without angering the Duke of Milan or the Doge. But as the Kaiser himself is on hand, it is, of course, his decision whether to take Florence or not.

Finally, as I do not wish to enter into a debate over the charter or betray my youth, I withdraw edict 1.15. It had not been seconded anyway.

Thank you milords.

[TinCow]

It is, from my interpretation, that these are powers given solely to the Kaiser's will, and therefore not something that can be decided by the vote of the diet. While it is in every Ducal House's interest to pass "suggestions" along to the Kaiser in regards to the distribution of the Empire's lands, we must not forget that the Empire is first and foremost subject to the Kaiser's decisions. We exist to serve, and should not be so swift to forget that ours is a freedom that can easily be taken away. To suggest through the passing of such edicts that the diet has the power to encroach on the Kaiser's ability to make the best choices for the Empire is to insinuate that some positions of power are not fully understood.

Dietrich, I must respectfully disagree with you on this matter. As we all surely know, the Kaiser does not have the power to exercise control over our private lands against our will. The very foundations of the Reich and the Electorate rest upon our own sovereignty within our own lands. If Hungarian troops encamp outside of Vienna and the Austrians rightfully repel them, taking a small area of only several hectares in the process, surely that land would belong to them. The Kaiser would have no more of a right to interfere in such a land matter as he would to give Vienna to the House of Swabia.

While it is wise to look to the Kaiser to resolve disputes, the matter of land distribution should bend to the will of the Houses if they can reach agreements on such matters. If no agreements can be met or if none are even proposed, then there is none better than the Kaiser to step in. However, this should not give him the power to allocate lands when the Diet is in agreement on the matter.

Furthermore, I would be concerned about such land powers being abused by future Kaisers who do not have the proven wisdom of Heinrich. By your interpretation of the laws, if the House of Swabia were to be attacked by the French and lose control of Staufen, the Kaiser could subsequently deliver it to Austria upon its recapture, even though this would be a blatant violation of Swabia's sovereignty over its own lands. While I know that the noble Heinrich would never do such a thing, we cannot trust that we will not some day find ourselves bending knee to a madman who would! We must protect our rights to our own lands now, lest our leniency be taken advantage of later.

Furthermore, I believe my interpretation is in-line with the law. If we reference the applicable legislation, we see the following:

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final.

This legislation is unclear on exactly what the Kaiser may rule on. It is clear from other legislation that his powers in the Diet are limited, so surely his rulings do not apply to everything. As I said before, the Kaiser cannot simply cede Vienna to the House of Swabia, even if he 'rules' it so before the Diet.

So, let us look for clarification.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

Ah, here we see that the Kaiser's duties specifically require him to decide on disputes of procedure that are otherwise deadlocked. This appears to be his main duty in the Diet. As such, clause 3.9 must be interpreted to reference this matter, as clause 3.9 specifically deals with the Kaiser’s powers within the Diet. If the allocation of land is outside the realm of Diet deliberations, then it is also outside the power of a ‘final’ ruling by the Kaiser. If the allocation of land is within the realm of Diet deliberations, then the Diet is free to rule on it if agreement can be reached. In addition, the Kaiser’s powers in regards to land are stated as follows:

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

Please note the most crucial of words in the legislations. The Kaiser CAN allocate settlements. This does not mean he must nor that he always has the ability. This is a conditional statement that gives him some authority, but not absolute authority on the matter. When reading all three of these pieces of legislation together, I believe it is perfectly consistent to allow the Diet to determine for itself the disposition of land if agreements can be reached on the matter. Surely if the majority of the Diet wishes to give Metz to Swabia, there is no harm in doing so.

[Ituralde]

Conrad rises from his seat as soon as Mandorf has finished speaking raising his voice slightly to be heard, befor falling back into his usual raspy voice:

This has become a legal dispute then, gentlemen?

His gaze scans the other members of the Diet.

Up until know I had seen the requests for land from the other Houses as an advice to our Emperor and therefore insisted on it in my own proposal, lest the House of Austria miss out on an... opportunity here.
This sheds another light on the already seconded votes by us, one that should not be taken on light-heartedly. Maybe another edict is in order, deciding who has the right to bestow lands?

My personal oppinion is, that our noble Emperor does indeed have the wisdom and knowledge to bestow conquered lands to whomever he seems fit enough to rule them in his name. I know him as an honourable man who surely would pay due respect to... notions mentioned in the Diet regarding those choices however. Honour should suffice, without the hassle of legal discussion and the tearing apart of paragraphs. If we can not reach a decision based on honour within this very Diet it looks indeed grim for our Empire.

As for your fear of our heartlands, surely no one has the right to deny you or your house their hereditary lands should we be forced to reconquer them one day! Maybe even another edict to grant us our hereditary rights? I don't think so.

A small cough escapes Conrad von Schüsselens lips but he composes himself immediatelly

I would also like to second Edict 1.19.

He takes a big breath inhaling loudly, before continuing.

As to the greedy notions of our fellow Bavarian Electors, I think our Emperor is wise enough to see through their ruse. Does not the House of Bavaria already control the rich city of Nuremburg and a mighty castle at Innsbruck? Surely this should be enough to statisfy their current needs, but instead they have sunk to haggling for provinces with our Emperor... A brief fit of couging interrupts Conrad Was it not I... Was it... I... that served in Italy... Conrad von Schüsselen can no longer control his coughing a small trickle of blood collects at the corner of his mouth while the couging shakes his body. The other Electors of the House of Austria have to support him as he sinks back onto his bench.
It seems that he has finished.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich: Well good electors, it seems that several rules disputes have come up. As Kaiser, it is my duty to rule on these and thus, effectively determine how much power I wield in this Diet.

I shall hereby keep the power to determine which House all newly-conquered settlements belong to. This decision is made not out of desire to wrench more power for myself, but for efficiency. The people of the world and of the Empire would see us weak if I had to drag you all back to Frankfurt every time one of us conquered! Good electors, nobody would get anything done!

That said:

I promise to allocate settlements based on geographic location, as well as previous ownership of the settlement if it is taken from our hands. In addition, I shall attempt to keep the distribution of these settlements fairly even so that at all times one House is not overly large or small. I hereby swear, in front of the Diet, that you may impeach me if I break this promise.

Charter Amendment 1.1: Upon escalation to the position of Kaiser, the previous oath must be stated in front of the Diet.

The power to build in provinces fall under those of the Dukes, and not the Diet. I cannot second 1.9.

1.10 is not necessary as there is a spy currently near Prague. I plan to send him in the city and report back to me on a regular basis.

I will second 1.12 if the number of men is reduced. Currently, by your wording, you ask for five companies. I believe that with a significant watchtower system in place as well as roads, we can make due with less.

You know my position on 1.13.

As for 1.14, see my opinion on 1.9.

1.16 should not be too much of a burden. Seconded.

As for 1.17, I do not second it since we could use the money. Worry about Milan later, but for now let us build the treasury!

1.18 is unnecessary as I fully plan to conquer Florence. As a matter of fact is about the first item on my agenda.

I second 1.19.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good electors, there has been much talk about the Italian city states and whether we should ally with them. I, as Kaiser, have this to say about Italy:

They are dogs. Treacherous dogs, all of them. I do not trust a single one of their people. They seek to expand and extend their pathetic influence over our people. This must not be allowed to happen. However, since all talks still persist, I offer the following compromise:

Edict 1.20: The Holy Roman Empire is to attempt to ally with Sicily.

My reasons for this are several. First of all, we share only a small border with Sicily, compared to fairly large ones with Venice and Milan. If the Sicilians were to execute a carefully-planned betrayal, they would only be a minor annoyance, compared to the threat of Venice and Milan. You remember the old adage from the times of the Roman Republic: Do not ally with your neighbors, but your neighbors' neighbors. I believe that this perfectly sums up our situation now.

I yield the floor.

[SwordsMaster]

As a Kurfurst I will support edict 1.20 A wise decision, my emperor. It is most appropriate to take inspiration in the peoples that whose deeds have allowed us to be Rome.

[pevergreen]

I promise to allocate settlements based on geographic location, as well as previous ownership of the settlement if it is taken from our hands. In addition, I shall attempt to keep the distribution of these settlements fairly even so that at all times one House is not overly large or small. I hereby swear, in front of the Diet, that you may impeach me if I break this promise.

My noble lords, as a fleeting thought, let us presume this is a hypothetical, that the Kingdom of France and the City State of Milan have both declared war on us, and are pushing the House of Swabia backwards. If the noble and honourable House of Austria were to conquer some rebel lands to the east, therefore, having it gifted to them, via the location clause, but Swabia could be down to their last Castle, what would happen then? Would you call an emergency Diet to authorise the transference of settlements, so that the House of Swabia could continue to exist?

I seek only clarification noble friends.

Also put my name down as a Second for Edict 1.20
The unremarkable man sits back down, looking pleased with himself

[DMu]

Third Kurfurst of Austria speaks.

Salvete! Fellow Kurfurst, mein Kaiser, et mein Prinz:

I have managed to tally the votes coming from my portion of Austria

Edicts:

1.1: Aye
1.3: Aye
1.4: Aye
1.5: Aye
1.6: Aye
1.7: Aye
1.8: Aye
1.13: Aye
1.16: Aye
1.17: Aye
1.18: Aye
1.19: Aye
1.20: Aye
1.23: Nay
1.25: Aye

Charter amendment 1.2: NAY NAY NAY. *brandishes sword* it's a conspiracy to limit the power of the people! It must be stopped. It must be stopped I tell you! At all cau-- early symptom of stroke as third elector of Austria falls silent, his lower lips out of sync with his upper one.*

[FactionHeir]

Fellow electors, I would like to ask for another seconder for edict 5.8, to allow training of two assassins for the Reich. With 5.16 having two seconders, this would not be possible without the support of 5.8 as well.