Imperial Diet

[TinCow]

(OOC: Gunther von Kastilien is Dutch_guy. Dlain is Otto von Kassel.)

Maximillian Mandorf meets Duke Leopold’s gaze, unblinking.

Excommunication…
Vengeance against one man…

These are statements of fear and submission. One the subject of excommunication, there are only two issues; our immortal souls and the consequences in this life. The former will not be imperiled, as Gregory is a False Pope, without the blessing of God. His words and deeds carry no influence in the Heavens. However, it is wise to take the latter into consideration before acting.

As has been stated, there will be turmoil within the Empire and without. We can certainly expect those who have fallen under the sway of the false Pope to cause trouble in our cities, but this is of little concern to us. Many of our provinces are castles, which will have no problems controlling such individuals. Our cities are for the most part extremely well governed and controlled. Few, likely none, would even require a reduction in taxes to keep the citizens content.

Of our neighbors, few have any real potential of harming us. Poland and Venice are our allies. They will not strike at us. Milan will soon be crushed no matter what. Denmark has little power to speak of and I am certain that the most noble House of Franconia could seize their lands in short order if called upon to do so. Despite all of the concerns raised over the many enemies that would attack us, there are really only two nations which have the potential to cause us problems: Hungary and France.

Our borders with France are minimal and they in turn share borders with 5 other nations, excluding ourselves. I find it hard to believe that they would choose to attack the strongest of their neighbors, given their situation. Hungary, however, is of legitimate concern. We have already seen their armies prowling around Vienna. It is clear that they desire the wealth of the Empire. I believe they will strike us no matter what we do. As such, moving against the Pope does not put us in any worse a situation than we are currently in.

On the contrary, I believe taking Rome now will be of great advantage to us. If we do not return the Papal throne to Imperial control, we will be bending knee to every whim of every Pope for the next thousand years! If the Pope were a properly ordained and appointed man, then we would have to respect his orders. Gregory is not such a man! He is invalid and his laws are invalid. He will do everything in his power to obstruct us and the rightful order and his successors will likely do the same.

If we move on Rome now, we will perhaps experience short-term difficulties, but in the long-term we will benefit the Empire. If we coordinate our assaults properly, Gregory’s army can be destroyed and Rome itself can be seized in a very short period of time. Once this is achieved, we can then create a new home for the Papacy in a place of our choosing. This will make the next Pope extremely grateful to us and put him physically within our control. Surely the Emperor will approve of his appointment beforehand, thus making his rulings valid law which we must obeyed. The Empire can then freely donate money to the Church knowing that it will be spend in God’s work rather than funding a minion of Satan.

As for where to locate the new Papacy… I would be willing to give up Nuremburg itself for the properly appointed Holy Father. Nuremburg is completely surrounded by the Empire, ensuring that our control over the Pope will never again be questioned. While Nuremburg is a beautiful city and a current financial center to our economy, it is landlocked and has limited trade potential in the long-run. Any loss of income from Nuremburg will surely be negligible in comparison to the prosperity we will gain from Rome itself.

I propose that we continue with the planned attack on Milan and wait to see if there is a call for Crusade from the Pope. If the Crusade is called, we should then immediately assault the Eternal City and the Pope’s forces with all available strength. If the call for Crusade does not come by the mid-term session, we can discuss whether or not to proceed at that point.

The coming years will likely result in many unpredictable events. I have been loathe to formalize this strategy into an Edict, but it appears that for clarity it might be necessary. I do not believe this Edict is necessary for this plan to succeed, but I shall propose it anyway to allow for proper discussion.

Edict 3.12: The Reich will immediately and aggressively attack Milan, ceasing the assault only under threat of immediate excommunication from Gregory. If a Crusade is called before the Diet session of 1140, the Reich will immediately and aggressively assault the Pope’s army, Rome, and any areas still under Milanese control. If a Crusade is not called before the Diet session of 1140, the assault on the Pope and Rome will be discussed again at that time.

Edict 3.13: If Rome is taken at any time during this Chancellorship, the Papacy will immediately be given a new home that is within Imperial control. In that event, an Emergency Session of the Diet will be called to determine which province is to be donated. As the Pope will then once again be approved by the Kaiser, regular funding will be properly given to the Church to allow it to continue God’s works.

Do not shy away from difficult times, my fellow noblemen. We will be opposed, to be sure, but we pursue a holy cause, ordained by God. Let us weather the difficulties so that we may restore Heaven’s influence on earth and benefit the Reich for centuries to come.

Mandorf crosses himself and sits down.

[Ituralde]

Duke Leopolds smile does not falter at the outburst of Otto von Kassel, but he can hardly maintain it throughout the length of Maximilan Mandorf's speech.

Very well then, I will rephrase Edict 3.7 to suit von Kassels wishes. Surely our next Chancellor can find another man that won't shirk at the prospect of combat.

While we're discussing other Edicts I can not agree with Edict 1.11. I see no reason why Austrian money should be wasted into some pity fleets as long as our holdings remain completely landlocked.

Austrian merchants have informed me that the profits we receive from our Silver mines surrounding Vienna could be greatly increased if we were to set some of our merchants on trading these ressources. They tell me that the initial investment of recruiting those men will break even around the end of the next Chancellors turn and will then start to generate profit.

I propose Edict 3.14:
Two merchants are to be trained in Vienna and set to trading the two Silver mines in the countryside surrounding Vienna.


With those formalities out of the way, I think it's time to move on to more pressing matters, concerning the warmongers amongst us. His gaze travels to Mandorf.

Your personal sentiments for Pope Gregory aside, I think your plans lack a certain element of foresight. Perhaps your rage against god's represantative on earth has blinded you to the possibilities the future has to offer. Surely if all went as you described the future would look most prosperous for us and the Reich. However your plans contain so many possibilities for faliure that I don't even know where to start.

First you expect the Pope to call some sort of crusade or another against the infidels? Then you propose that we stir the righteous zeal of our peasantry and nobles to have them embark with us on this noblest of endeavours just to lie every one of them in the face. For instead of utilizing their zeal against the heathens that trouble Jerusalem itself, you want them to fight against their fellow Christians? Have you no honour left in your soul, has your hatred for Pope Gregory withered all of it away?
Even if enough corrupted souls could be found to support your endeavour against Rome, don't you think the French, the English and even the Milanese will have stirred up their populace to follow Pope Gregory's call. Do you think those armies would stand idly by while you attack the city of Rome itself?
Even our closest allies will consider breaking our bonds, because once we're excommunicated our word will weigh less than a feather within Christian Europe. Do not discard the Venetians or Poles so lightly once Gregory has given them an opportunity to fight against infidels, not somewhere far away, but right at their doorstep. The same goes for the other countries whose power on the field you discarded so lightly.
Then you intend to slay Pope Gregory on the field of battle and take the city from his successor, who will then thankfully accept our hereditary lands. Do you really think he would be gullible enough to accept any land we offer him? The Milanese, the French, the Hungarians, they will topple over themselves in trying to be the first to give the Pope a new home from where he can continue his war against our Reich. What do we do then, my dear Mandorf?

What if every nation of Europe turns against us and the Pope is amongst them supporting their cause, while you have just lied to your Subordinates and thrown away their souls to purgery or worse?
Your revenge will be a short one, while all we have worked for so hard will be torn asunder by our enemies.
Your plan, and any plan that let's us suffer excommunication and even tries to attack Rome itself, is pure and outright folly! Every man with a sane mind should be able to see this!

I once again urge every Elector to support me in Edict 3.6 to avoid that the vainity and hatred of a few men, destroy what so many of us have worked so hard for during the last years!

[Kagemusha]

Fifth Elector of Swabia ask for permission to speak after listening carefully what the others have sayed.

"Kaiser, fellow Electors. Now that war is upon us we should keep a clear head and keep ourselves concentrated on our main goal. That is in my wiew, to defeat the enemy, so there can be peace again.
I have listened your words and some sound very disturbing to me. Challenge Pope? Take Rome? How long is from the last time these kind of thoughts were flying around in the Diet? How long is since our Empire nearly collapsed becouse of the strugle between Kaiser and Pope? Do we want to take the same path again, just when we are just about getting back on our two feet after the last strugle. I hope not.
The fact is that the Milanese have offended us by attacking our castle at Bern. This gives us legimite reason to end the rebellious existence of Milan. So i propose following edicts:

Edict 3.15 : Taking the city of Milan,Taking the city of Genoa and taking the city of Dijon.

I suggest attack with three forces. One against Dijon,lead by our Prinz Henry with our Swabians,possibly strengthened with mercenaries. Second against Milan lead by Otto Von Kassel,using troops from Innsbruck. Third against Genoa,lead by Kaiser with our Italian troops.

Edict 3.16 : Incase papal bulla is ordered to stop the attacks.We will stop all attacks against Milanese until the bulla expires.

I think it would be foolish to go now against the Pope and in order to create better relations i propose:

Edict 3.17 : Offering of mutual right of Passage to Papacy.

I understand that in current disturbed times. The Holy father needs an armed escort when moving around and we shouldnt think that as hostile action towards us.

To other matters. I see that in North there are German troops sitting on their hands and easy pickings to take:

Edict 3.18 : The Reich will take Antwerp from the rebels.

As i have heard Antwerp is almost undefended and we cant leave that rich city in hands of the rebels. I hope my fellow electors will consider these thoughts."

The Fifth Elector of Swabia bows to the Diet and takes his place.

[OverKnight]

Otto looks almost like his old self as he rises to speak:

First, Duke Leopold, I do not shirk from combat, anyone who was with me at Bern knows that. It is a strange accusation coming from someone who besieged Prague longer than the Greeks did Troy!

Turning from the Duke, Otto nods to the Fifth Elector of Swabia:

You have some good ideas there Sir. I will second edict 3.15. I appreciate the fact that it does not have a time frame.

The other edicts you propose, however, I will not second. 3.16 calls for a stop to our attacks against the Milanese if the Pope warns us to cease hostilities. I believe we can still attack Milanese forces within our borders and not violate this warning. Your edict, as I understand it, would call for a stop to all offensive actions against Milan, within or without our Empire. I admire the spirit of the edict though, as it mirrors 3.4.

3.17 would entail allying with the Pope and then giving him military access, this I cannot support.

I have heard from many travellers (OOC: Looking at our border with Antwerp in the game) that Antwerp has fallen to the Danes, this would invalidate 3.18. The Danes assaulted Antwerp from the sea, bypassing Hamburg, something the Diet should keep in mind when they decide on edict 3.11.

As for some of the other recent edicts. . .

Otto pauses to rub his right temple.

I second edicts 3.10 and 3.13.

I hope the Diet can recognize the distinction between opposing a plan of action but trying to ensure that if it passes, it is in a form that has the best chance of success. It is a fine line I admit, but one I must walk.

If, and I hope we do not, go to war with the Pope, the Kaiser deserves to lead the assault. We also need to make plans for the aftermath. As Maximillian has been the only one of the three calling for the war to spell out any strategies for coping with this, I will second his proposals that do not call for an immediate or mandated attack on the Pope.

Otto sits.

[Kagemusha]

The Swabian Elector stands up and says looking towards Otto Von Kassel:

"Thank you for clarification of the situation in Antwerp. I shall therefore withdraw Edict 3.18 : The Reich will take Antwerp from the rebels.
. Im still concerned of the Diets wiews about the Papacy and i recommend that the Diet should also think of the impact attacking Papacy and Excommunication could cause in the Reich. While i believe that The Holy Roman empire is the crown jewel of Christendom. Let it be made clear that i will not draw my sword against the Pope,who is still the representative of God on earth and i pray for the souls of those who would be willing to disgrace the Holy Father. Maybe those of you who are eager to attack Pope, should take the cross and go to fight the heathens in Holy land to purify your souls from evil."

Fifth Swabian Elector sits down.

[TinCow]

It appears that some of you have forgotten your loyalties to God and the Kaiser. Those who shy away from a conflict with Rome due to concerns about the welfare of the Reich at least have proper priorities, even if their conclusions are faulty. The same cannot be said of those of you who actively support the Usurper. To these people I say, beware. If you persist in your blasphemy, you will reap an unholy harvest, if not in this world, then in the next.

I have said all I wish to on these matters. It seems that most of you have made up your minds to support Satan's servant on Earth. As such, I will simply second several Edicts that I think are worthy of being put to the vote. I hereby second Edicts 3.8, 3.11, and 3.15. I would second Edict 3.9, but this Edict is not necessary, as Edicts expire at the end of the Chancellor's term in which they were proposed, unless they specifically state otherwise. Since Edict 1.1 did not contain such language, it has expired and does not need to be nullified.

[AussieGiant]

With a slight frown on his face the 4th Elector of House Austria rises to speak

I'd like to ask the Steward of Bavaria which church he is representing in order to use the words Usurper, blasphemy and Satan's servant on Earth to describe the Roman Catholic Church currently residing in Rome?

How have you come to your conclusion that the current church and its POPE are invalid Sir?

What is a "Properly ordained and appointed man" mean exactly, and how is subjecting the Catholic Church to Imperial Control going to be followed by members of the Clergy?

Is his issue with the person holding office or the establishment as a whole?

I'd like to point out that there seems to be a blurring between issues of faith and the secular or non-religious consequences of attacking Rome.

Likewise, the plan outlined by the Steward of Bavaria, does not address my question of what benefit this action gain for the Reich.

A loose explanation of a possible event timeline is not comforting.

Taking a seat the 4th Elector of House Austria summons a Page man and hands him a note