Imperial Diet

[OverKnight]

Otto looks almost like his old self as he rises to speak:

First, Duke Leopold, I do not shirk from combat, anyone who was with me at Bern knows that. It is a strange accusation coming from someone who besieged Prague longer than the Greeks did Troy!

Turning from the Duke, Otto nods to the Fifth Elector of Swabia:

You have some good ideas there Sir. I will second edict 3.15. I appreciate the fact that it does not have a time frame.

The other edicts you propose, however, I will not second. 3.16 calls for a stop to our attacks against the Milanese if the Pope warns us to cease hostilities. I believe we can still attack Milanese forces within our borders and not violate this warning. Your edict, as I understand it, would call for a stop to all offensive actions against Milan, within or without our Empire. I admire the spirit of the edict though, as it mirrors 3.4.

3.17 would entail allying with the Pope and then giving him military access, this I cannot support.

I have heard from many travellers (OOC: Looking at our border with Antwerp in the game) that Antwerp has fallen to the Danes, this would invalidate 3.18. The Danes assaulted Antwerp from the sea, bypassing Hamburg, something the Diet should keep in mind when they decide on edict 3.11.

As for some of the other recent edicts. . .

Otto pauses to rub his right temple.

I second edicts 3.10 and 3.13.

I hope the Diet can recognize the distinction between opposing a plan of action but trying to ensure that if it passes, it is in a form that has the best chance of success. It is a fine line I admit, but one I must walk.

If, and I hope we do not, go to war with the Pope, the Kaiser deserves to lead the assault. We also need to make plans for the aftermath. As Maximillian has been the only one of the three calling for the war to spell out any strategies for coping with this, I will second his proposals that do not call for an immediate or mandated attack on the Pope.

Otto sits.

[Kagemusha]

The Swabian Elector stands up and says looking towards Otto Von Kassel:

"Thank you for clarification of the situation in Antwerp. I shall therefore withdraw Edict 3.18 : The Reich will take Antwerp from the rebels.
. Im still concerned of the Diets wiews about the Papacy and i recommend that the Diet should also think of the impact attacking Papacy and Excommunication could cause in the Reich. While i believe that The Holy Roman empire is the crown jewel of Christendom. Let it be made clear that i will not draw my sword against the Pope,who is still the representative of God on earth and i pray for the souls of those who would be willing to disgrace the Holy Father. Maybe those of you who are eager to attack Pope, should take the cross and go to fight the heathens in Holy land to purify your souls from evil."

Fifth Swabian Elector sits down.

[TinCow]

It appears that some of you have forgotten your loyalties to God and the Kaiser. Those who shy away from a conflict with Rome due to concerns about the welfare of the Reich at least have proper priorities, even if their conclusions are faulty. The same cannot be said of those of you who actively support the Usurper. To these people I say, beware. If you persist in your blasphemy, you will reap an unholy harvest, if not in this world, then in the next.

I have said all I wish to on these matters. It seems that most of you have made up your minds to support Satan's servant on Earth. As such, I will simply second several Edicts that I think are worthy of being put to the vote. I hereby second Edicts 3.8, 3.11, and 3.15. I would second Edict 3.9, but this Edict is not necessary, as Edicts expire at the end of the Chancellor's term in which they were proposed, unless they specifically state otherwise. Since Edict 1.1 did not contain such language, it has expired and does not need to be nullified.

[AussieGiant]

With a slight frown on his face the 4th Elector of House Austria rises to speak

I'd like to ask the Steward of Bavaria which church he is representing in order to use the words Usurper, blasphemy and Satan's servant on Earth to describe the Roman Catholic Church currently residing in Rome?

How have you come to your conclusion that the current church and its POPE are invalid Sir?

What is a "Properly ordained and appointed man" mean exactly, and how is subjecting the Catholic Church to Imperial Control going to be followed by members of the Clergy?

Is his issue with the person holding office or the establishment as a whole?

I'd like to point out that there seems to be a blurring between issues of faith and the secular or non-religious consequences of attacking Rome.

Likewise, the plan outlined by the Steward of Bavaria, does not address my question of what benefit this action gain for the Reich.

A loose explanation of a possible event timeline is not comforting.

Taking a seat the 4th Elector of House Austria summons a Page man and hands him a note

[TinCow]

Surely I do not need to give the Austrian Elector a history lesson. The Investiture Crisis, as people are calling it, is well known to all educated citizens of the Reich. This is not some old or forgotten issue. Pope Gregory illegally disregards Kaiser Heinrich's rights to approve of the appointment of clergymembers. These rights are ancient and have been upheld for nearly a thousand years. They do not cease to exist simply because some poorly bred bastard in Rome says they do. Kaiser Heinrich has not given his approval for Gregory's appointment, as such his Papacy is invalid. Those who support Gregory are supporting nothing less than a revolt against the ancient order of the Christian Church.

(OOC: This is all based on the historical conflict between Emperor Henry IV and Pope Gregory. Read the wiki article and you'll understand it's significance and why it's proper to have the Papal issue at the forefront of HRE politics at this time. Historically, Gregory won. CA actually based the starting order of the game on this, as reflected by the HRE's very low starting standing with the Pope and by Rome being one the HRE's victory conditions. Remember, both Henry IV (Heinrich) and Gregory are alive in our current game. Not likely that this issue would have been forgotten. Indeed, historically Henry V (Prinz Henry in our game) continued to fight the Papacy for the rights of Investiture and only gave them up late in his life.)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich:

I remind aspiring candidates for Chancellor that they have slightly less than 13 hours to come forward. Otherwise, Sigismund der Stolze automatically is elected to the position.

As far as my opinion on this, I have already made my feelings public. The Reich will *not* come under attack from every single Catholic faction, because they all have their own problems, and I'm sure some of them have their own quarrels with the Pope. At the very least, we will have Sicily's support, meaning that Rome is surrounded by hostile people. That in itself will make Pope Gregory think twice about excommunicating us.

[OverKnight]

My lords, with only a few hours until voting begins, less than half of the proposed edicts have the needed two seconders to be on the ballot.

If you plan to second something, I would do it now.