"Mess" on twcenter.net

[KukriKhan]

I would like to thank the ORG for hosting this thread/section while the mess at TWC occured. Many Thanks! /C22.

:tries to make himself useful handing out blankets and
cups of hot coffee and cheese sandwiches:

I know these events are fresh, and difficult to completely digest right now; and that you're all waiting to re-migrate to another place; and that there are hard feelings to be navigated through.

I'm just wondering (as an individual guy, not as a staffer of the Org), while you're waiting, whether any of you think some good or important lessons can be learnt from this exercise?

About content ownership, for example.

Or work-group procedures.

Or anything. It's been a crisis; you guys survived. Maybe we can learn something from you. Or you from each other.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

imb39 has purchased the forum, I'm not sure about him though, I've never heard of him till now - so is he, let's say, a Populares (pro-TWC and it's citizens) or an Optimate (pro-ON and it's staff).

[Warluster]

Wow, its just like in the movies.... a great Empire rises, then the invaders come, and despair.
*Crys as Godfather music plays*
I love the movie....

[Spartacus-FIN-]

Alright, could you update a bit now? I have no idea what's going on..

[Faenaris]

I'm glad to hear that the TWC is coming through. There are a lot of talented modders over there, it would be a shame to lose them.

Oh, one suggestion: Please don't take the Curia too serious. Reading all the "if that change comes through, I'll resign" only to see the member return after 2 days, was a bit melo-dramatic.

[TB666]

Alright, could you update a bit now? I have no idea what's going on..

Imb39 has bought TWC and ON will leave the forum.
We won

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Imb39 has bought TWC and ON will leave the forum.
We won

Does that mean that you are all going back as heroic admins/moderators to reclaim you rightful home off the tyrants of ON?

[Solon of Athens]

There will be no retribution against anyone who were 'HG lovers'. New Admins, New Slate, New TWC!

And thanks guys, I never thought we could get so many people to spam the hell out of TWC with the link. My 10 threads truly were replaced with 100's more from the loyal members of TWC, kudos to you!

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

What about the great new site. Will it ever be used?

[the Black Prince]

doubt it... the only reason we were setting up a new szite was because we didnt think ON were going to let go of our home.

@Kukri

in the last 18 months - 2 years, TWC's biggest problem is that its been owned and operated by network admin who knew nothing about the history of the site, or the community, didn't care, and didn't interact.

they'd come along one day, make some changes, and look surprised when the most active 200 members or so would all go up in arms and start screaming at them.

TWC was first created in September 2002. We're not as old as the Org, but we are a very well established site. Some of the senior members, myself included have been on the site 3 years or more. We have our traditions, our ways of doing things, and above all our site administrators underlying ethos has always been, For The Community. A website run for the community, by the community.

ON always viewed TWC just as another small part of their network that they could do what they liked with. Of course, they could do this. But by not listening to the people at all, they caused problem after problem. The site staff had the hardest time... ON weren't around all the time, but the site admins rarely had the full admin privilidges to run the site efficiently.

The Curia forms the heart of the community ethos at TWC.
I know you all groan when i said it, but TWC isn't run as a government, TWC politics isn't politics in any form of government sense. The Curia is the place where the leading community members, the citizens of the site, have their say on site actions. Over the years since the Curia has been in existance, a great many things have been achieved by it. I don't deny either that its been a source of problems. The staff, for the most part, (with maybe 3 exceptions) have always tried to do what they thought best for the community, and respect the Curia, but they were constantly blocked by the network who kept making network decisions that while they may have worked on the largly dead other sites in the network, just didn't work on a site the size of TWC.

Their latest idiocy was what they called a 3 tier administration system
Network Admins (ON Staff)
Site Admin (1 head of site)
Junior Site Admin (2 assistant head of site)

at the time, TWC had not 3, but 7 administrators, each with a different area of responsibility. Reducing that to 3 would have put an incredibly burden of work on the 3 remaining, and to make it harder, we still wouldn't have been able to rely on the network admins for the technical side of things. they've just never been there for us.

What have we learnt? That for a site to function, the people in charge need actually be interested and work for the site, and not expect the site to listen to you. That the power of the members can never be underestimated. At the height of these troubles, 80% of our top community members, all the mods, most of the modders, and an amazing number of normal members were all willing to head off to our new site. That would have left ON with a bunch of spammers and new people. The very centre of TWC will always be the members.

Now, we have an admin team drawn entirely from the community, a leader who's a long standing very well respected community member, and a series of events that if anything have drawn the community closer together.

[Spartacus-FIN-]

Holy cow, Victory!
Thanks .Org for your sympathy and support in these troubled times.
I'm heading back to TWC now. Muahah! Imb is god..

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Great to here all this guys! I might set up an account over there one day, and stop lurking, now it's all at, hopefully, permanent peace and tranquillity.

[lt1956]

How do we know for sure that it still isnt in the hands of the ON owners? Could be some trick to delay and then lower the boom on us?

[Grey_Fox]

This wasn't a victory. if anybody has won, it was Ogre, he's made cash out of it. He held the site hostage, and you paid the ransom. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

[the Black Prince]

It has been a long week.

Total War Center has had a long run--some of it good, some of it bad, but all of it exciting--and I'm happy to say that the site is going to live on. It's going to continue on being the great place that it has always been except under a different "ownership". I'd rather say banner, but ownership is more the precise term.

The transition period will probably take the rest of this month. And will slowly happen until things are completely transferred over to the new owners. During this period Ogre's Network will limit its day to day involvement with the site.

Ian Burgess, imb39 as most of you know him, is going to be taking over the site. After the transition period is done, Ogre's Network will relinquish all site operations to the new owner.

Ogre would like to appologize for many of the things that have happened over this past week. He really didn't want for things to go as they did. And for that he apologizes. Sorry guys.

Because Ogre posted this, but above all, because Ian says he bought the site off ON, and i trust him

[imb39]

This wasn't a victory. if anybody has won, it was Ogre, he's made cash out of it. He held the site hostage, and you paid the ransom. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

No, Ogre did not hold the site to ransom. I can categorically deny that assertion.

I have both a verbal and written (MSN) agreement with Ogre and whilst he is hard to get hold of, he is not duplictous. There are also two witnesses, on MSN, that can attest to the fact that an agreement has been reached.

I know that the internet is a great place for rumours but, as tBP has pointed out, Ogre has made a statement. I am now confirming it as best I can and shall write an announcement soon enough. At the moment I am still trying to come to terms with the latest developments given the events over the past week.

[caravel]

Congratulations imb39, I only hope, as KukriKhan, that maybe TWC has learned something from all of this. Personally I don't put a lot of stock in verbal or "MSN" agreements, whatever they may be, and I do think that there may be more to all of this than meets the eye, but still you have the site now and hopefully a time of stability and tranquility lies ahead.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

[Caius]

I hape heard imb is banning all.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I don't think he is. It seems very back to normal, just no tyrannical ON people hanging around now.

[Lusted]

jp was joking on the irc about that.

Hopefully we will learn the lessons of the past few days, im certainly going to push for more of a focus on the mod community.

[Solon of Athens]

I hape heard imb is banning all.

You mean someone believed that?

[imb39]

I hape heard imb is banning all.

Why, do you have a list to give me?

[Fondor_Yards]

Why, do you have a list to give me?

I'm sure H&G keep one around there somewhere, shouldn't be too hard to fine.

[lt1956]

IMB39 I heard that the buyers believe they are buying the rights so to speak on the mods and in essence the new owners will OWN the mods they host?

Is this true, will there be disclaimers SAYING that you or TWC doesnt own the mods it hosts? ALL I use is the SPQR forums I have my OWN download links.

[Lusted]

Lt, imb IS the new owner. He is fully aware that TWC does not own the mods that are hosted.

[Caius]

Why, do you have a list to give me?

I said I have heard.And that was a joke.GAH!

[imb39]

IMB39 I heard that the buyers believe they are buying the rights so to speak on the mods and in essence the new owners will OWN the mods they host?

Is this true, will there be disclaimers SAYING that you or TWC doesnt own the mods it hosts? ALL I use is the SPQR forums I have my OWN download links.

As far as TWC is concerned, the mods are not ours. I am pretty sure that technically they are the peoperty of SEGA/CA. Anyway, they are not owned by me. I'll also go so far as to say that we'll never claim this either. It would be immoral, imo, to do this anyway.

[PixelTrixel]

:) hehe yes thats right

[drone]

Apparently, I need to visit the Entrance Hall more often.

I lurked at TWC a while back, but the Org seemed like a simpler place, and I'm just a simple guy, so I joined here instead. But it would be a shame to lose a large subset of the TW community, variety and "competition" is a good thing overall.

Glad you guys got everything sorted out, and hope the pieces aren't too hard to put back together. Good luck!

(off to ponder the Org's relationship with Telefragged...)