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Thread: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    How could they? I mean, the government promised that the stripping of personal liberties would only affect muslim terrorists.

    Unlike the supine British sheep, I fully expect to see the Cruise Missile Divisions of the People's Militia taking to the streets any moment. I have switched off the rugger and expect 24 hours news to be broadcasting the uprising any moment now.



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Gonzales, Mueller admit FBI broke law

    By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer Sat Mar 10, 7:54 AM ET

    WASHINGTON - The nation's top two law enforcement officials acknowledged Friday the FBI broke the law to secretly pry out personal information about Americans. They apologized and vowed to prevent further illegal intrusions.

    Attorney General Alberto Gonzales left open the possibility of pursuing criminal charges against FBI agents or lawyers who improperly used the USA Patriot Act in pursuit of suspected terrorists and spies.

    The FBI's transgressions were spelled out in a damning 126-page audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine. He found that agents sometimes demanded personal data on people without official authorization, and in other cases improperly obtained telephone records in non-emergency circumstances.

    The audit also concluded that the FBI for three years underreported to Congress how often it used national security letters to ask businesses to turn over customer data. The letters are administrative subpoenas that do not require a judge's approval.

    "People have to believe in what we say," Gonzales said. "And so I think this was very upsetting to me. And it's frustrating."

    "We have some work to do to reassure members of Congress and the American people that we are serious about being responsible in the exercise of these authorities," he said.

    Under the Patriot Act, the national security letters give the FBI authority to demand that telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses produce personal records about their customers or subscribers. About three-fourths of the letters issued between 2003 and 2005 involved counterterror cases, with the rest for espionage investigations, the audit reported.

    Shoddy record-keeping and human error were to blame for the bulk of the problems, said Justice auditors, who were careful to note they found no indication of criminal misconduct.

    Still, "we believe the improper or illegal uses we found involve serious misuses of national security letter authorities," the audit concluded.

    FBI Director Robert S. Mueller said many of the problems were being fixed, including by building a better internal data collection system and training employees on the limits of their authority. The FBI has also scrapped the use of "exigent letters," which were used to gather information without the signed permission of an authorized official.

    "But the question should and must be asked: How could this happen? Who is accountable?" Mueller said. "And the answer to that is, I am to be held accountable."

    Mueller said he had not been asked to resign, nor had he discussed doing so with other officials. He said employees would probably face disciplinary actions, not criminal charges, following an internal investigation of how the violations occurred.

    The audit incensed lawmakers in Congress already seething over the recent dismissals of eight U.S. attorneys. Democrats who lead House and Senate judiciary and intelligence oversight panels promised hearings on the findings. Several lawmakers — Republicans and Democrats alike — raised the possibility of scaling back the FBI's authority.

    "It's up to Congress to end these abuses as soon as possible," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee. "The Patriot Act was never intended to allow the Bush administration to violate fundamental constitutional rights."

    Rep. Pete Hoekstra, top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, said the audit shows "a major failure by Justice to uphold the law."

    "If the Justice Department is going to enforce the law, it must follow it as well," said Hoekstra, of Michigan.

    The American Civil Liberties Union said the audit proves Congress must amend the Patriot Act to require judicial approval anytime the FBI wants access to sensitive personal information.

    "The attorney general and the FBI are part of the problem, and they cannot be trusted to be part of the solution," said ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero.

    Both Gonzales and Mueller called the national security letters vital tools in pursuing terrorists and spies in the United States. "They are the bread and butter of our investigations," Mueller said.

    Gonzales asked the inspector general to issue a follow-up audit in July on whether the FBI had followed recommendations to fix the problems.

    Fine's annual review is required by Congress, over the objections of the Bush administration. It concluded that the number of national security letters requested by the FBI skyrocketed in the years after the Patriot Act became law. Each letter issued may contain several requests.

    In 2000, for example, the FBI issued an estimated 8,500 requests. That number peaked in 2004 with 56,000. Overall, the FBI reported issuing 143,074 requests in national security letters between 2003 and 2005.

    But that did not include an additional 8,850 requests that were never recorded in the FBI's database, the audit found. A sample review of 77 case files at four FBI field offices showed that agents had underreported the number of national security letter requests by about 22 percent.

    Additionally, the audit found, the FBI identified 26 possible violations in its use of the letters, including failing to get proper authorization, making improper requests under the law and unauthorized collection of telephone or Internet e-mail records.

    The FBI also used exigent letters to quickly get information — sometimes in non-emergency situations — without going through proper channels. In at least 700 cases, these letters were sent to three telephone companies to get billing records and subscriber information, the audit found.

    ___

    On the Net:

    The report is at: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/index.htm

    Justice Department: http://www.usdoj.gov

    FBI: http://www.fbi.gov



    More seriously, is there a mood to do something about the Act? Do US citizens actually trust their government not to keep doing this? Or do most Americans shrug their shoulders at this kind of thing now?
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

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    The Blade Member JimBob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    I have switched off the rugger and expect 24 hours news to be broadcasting the uprising any moment now
    Why would you turn off a perfectly good game waiting for American's to give a damn. At least Scotland had a chance.

    No one really cares. The people who would care guessed a while ago, and the people who don't still don't
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    Sometimes I crash in the weeds
    One day a bowl full of cherries
    One night I'm suckin' on lemons and spittin' out the seeds
    -Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers, Lemons

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    They're too busy rolling their eyes that our politicians might think of taking children's fingerprints.

    All those guns are there for moments like this, when they retake power from the corrupt abusers of power, right? That's the whole point of carrying arms in the unofficial NRA militia.

    Oh, wait. They're sorry. Well danger over - American checks and balances work! It was only shoddy record-keeping; those in the FBI wouldn't fake data would they? Nah.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    How long till one of our US fellow backroomers says that we shouldn't whine about this and worry about our own countries, 'cause we're not US citizens ?

    Look, the Congress doesn't have time to waste over such trifling matters as the Patriot Act and all these whining terrorists, ok ? There are much more important matters at hand, such as all these friggin' pirates that download copyrighted stuff (I mean, can you believe that ?!) from these liberal hornet-nests known as universities...

    Article here.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    March 9, 2007
    Lawmakers Bash Colleges Over Campus Piracy
    By Roy Mark

    WASHINGTON – Annoyed at recent reports that online campus piracy rates top 50 percent, lawmakers warned college and university administrators Thursday if they don't do more to curb the theft, Congress would.

    Complaining that a number of schools refused cooperate with a General Accountability Office (GAO) survey of campus piracy rates, Rep. Howard Berman (D-Calif.) said a number of colleges and universities simply are ignoring the problem.

    "Unfortunately, many schools have turned a blind eye to piracy," Berman, chairman of the House Subcommittee on Intellectual Property, said at a hearing to call administrators to task. "Current law isn't giving universities enough incentive to comply."

    Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, added campus piracy is still "rampant and widespread" and "too many schools do little or nothing about it. That's an unacceptable response."

    According to the University of Richmond's Intellectual Property Institute, more than half of all college students download music and movies illegally. Another report from the research firm NPD claims college students get more of their music from illegal peer-to-peer (P2P) services than the rest of the population.

    The numbers come more than five years after the music industry teamed with academia to launch college education programs to teach students about intellectual property rights. Since then, schools have incorporated copyright theft lessons in orientation sessions, preached the virtues of legal music services and researched technology that sniffs out illegal file swapping on campus networks.

    "First, I should note that this is a ubiquitous problem, not one unique to higher education," John Vaughn, the executive vice president of the Association of American Universities, told the House panel. "P2P file sharing is widespread on the commercial networks serving a great many more customers than the roughly 17 million students served by higher education."

    Vaughn said schools face a number of challenges in limiting illegal P2P file sharing, including cost, fostering an academic climate of free and open speech and the increasing use of legal P2P services.

    "The uses of P2P technologies for legitimate purposes heightens the importance of being able to differentiate legitimate and illegitimate uses for any technologies intended to block…P2P file sharing," he said.

    Jim Davis, UCLA's chief technology officer, noted that most of the infringement complaints at the school are directed at student residency halls, where approximately 20 percent of the student population live.

    "Far more students live off-campus, making them part of the great majority of students who use commercial Internet service providers…outside of [UCLA's] purview," Davis said.

    Davis also questioned legal music services as a panacea for reducing student infringement.

    "Our students perceive these legal services to be limited in content, dependent on specific vendors or operating system and/or providing an uneven user experience," he said. "Generally, digital rights management means downloads are often unusable or non-transferable into the vast majority of students' portable players."

    Cary Sherman, president of the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), dismissed the idea that schools can't control the piracy, claiming administrators are not enforcing the law or their own institutional policies.

    "It doesn't have to be like this," he said. "We take this opportunity to once again ask schools to recognize the harm their inaction causes, to acknowledge the solutions that have been presented and to work with us productively to address a problem that affects us all."

    In addition to Berman and Conyers, other lawmakers on the subcommittee sided with Sherman. Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-Tex.) agreed schools weren't doing enough and Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) suggested Congress might increase the schools' legal liability for the theft of their students.

    Rep. Ric Keller (R-Fla.), though, issued the sternest warning: "For those universities that don't want to get serious about it, the hammer is coming," he said.


    You know, sadly enough, I don't think anything will come out of this (I'm talking about the FBI thingie). Absolutely nada will happen, and things will go on as before (until they get worse with the next measure for fighting against those oh-so-pesky terrorists).
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

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    Amphibious Trebuchet Salesman Member Whacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Bah, are you guys really surprised here? When power exists it will always be abused, always. You can take that to the bank.

    I find the state of my government to be absolutely appauling these days, and no I did not vote for that ape in the Oval Office. Afghanistan was in my view a big mistake. Iraq is a deathtrap and has done nothing but kill countless Americans and Iraqis, all in the name of the US establishing a "powerbase" in the Middle East. Thinking about what the US may do with Iran and N. Korea gives me ulcers, we may very well see (nuclear) WWIII in our lifetimes. The current administration does nothing to help this, in fact they use fearmongering as both propaganda and an excuse to do what they've been doing to both foreign nationals AND our own citizens. The Patriot Act and Guantanamo Bay are two of the most disgusting and sickening examples of rights abuse that I can think of, and they're repeatedly thrown in the public's faces and yet they (we) do nothing. As long as we have God, NASCAR, Bud Light, and gay folks can't marry, then we're clearly in the right and should support St. Bush in doing (and should) do whatever he see fit to ensure these godless heathen terrorists can't blow up our tractors! /heavy sarcasm

    Now don't get me wrong, I understand and believe that the US has it's own interests to protect and treaties to adhere to, but what's been done lately under this guise is totally unacceptable. The US needs to stop interfereing with other soveriegn nation's affairs (even if we dont' agree with them), stop the blatant and flagrant rights abuse and culling, and start taking care of the bigger problems we have on our own soil.


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    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    The US is a sick, dying animal. One day we're all going to wake up and find it lying dead in the kitchen.

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    Hand Bacon Member ShadeHonestus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    More seriously, is there a mood to do something about the Act? Do US citizens actually trust their government not to keep doing this? Or do most Americans shrug their shoulders at this kind of thing now?

    First of all, I'd be more worried if they failed to find abuses. That would mean the government suddenly became proficient in cover ups.

    As for the meat of the matter (sorry vegans) there are deeper issues than just the displeasure by many with the Act itself. There are constitutional issues. Most notably that of judicial review. In fact there are many things that the public has questioned, the courts and congress have had zero jurisdictional oversight, but the president has offered them up for review. Its a catch 22 in those cases as the reasons for a lack of oversight have now been given precedent for future oversight by an administration thats been increasingly swayed by politics and public opinion.

    The Patriot Act is now squarely in the battlefield and it needs to be taken either purposely forward or into complete oblivion, we can't afford to live in the gray and subject tactics to politics and the public opinion.
    "There is a true glory and a true honor; the glory in duty done and the honor in the integrity of principle."

    "The truth is this; the march of Providence so long, that of the individual so brief, that we often only see the ebb of the advancing wave. It is history which teaches us to hope."

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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Lignator
    The US is a sick, dying animal. One day we're all going to wake up and find it lying dead in the kitchen.
    Would you care to elaborate ?
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

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    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    On a related note. Political purge of judiciary? You be da judge.

    If it has web feet and quacks, the word on the street is that it's a duck.
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    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Lignator
    The US is a sick, dying animal. One day we're all going to wake up and find it lying dead in the kitchen.
    A victim of fowl play, no doubt.
    This space intentionally left blank

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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregoshi
    A victim of fowl play, no doubt.
    A feather-light post-mortem.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

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    Hand Bacon Member ShadeHonestus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
    On a related note. Political purge of judiciary? You be da judge.

    If it has web feet and quacks, the word on the street is that it's a duck.
    Then its obvious that its a pheasant in expectation from what you wrote.

    This has littlle to do with some new idea that the president can purge U.S. Attorneys. It has always been done and they have always served at the pleasure of the president and do not have to be given reason. The only reason this became a headline is because of the battle in Congress right now over federal districts having jurisdiction over a failed senate confirmation.

    The line in the patriot act gave the President the power to appoint directly and did not change his ability to fire with no reason at all.

    The oddity that they were fired at the same time is poor form, and thats it...
    Last edited by ShadeHonestus; 03-11-2007 at 01:44.
    "There is a true glory and a true honor; the glory in duty done and the honor in the integrity of principle."

    "The truth is this; the march of Providence so long, that of the individual so brief, that we often only see the ebb of the advancing wave. It is history which teaches us to hope."

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeHonestus
    This has littlle to do with some new idea that the president can purge U.S. Attorneys. It has always been done and they have always served at the pleasure of the president and do not have to be given reason. The only reason this became a headline is because of the battle in Congress right now over federal districts having jurisdiction over a failed senate confirmation.
    Yes, yes, if it isn't Clinton's fault, then it has always been that way, and the only reason anybody's noticed is that the liberals are crying home to mama.

    My Google-fu is weak, and I'm having trouble finding the article again, but a cursory examination showed that under Gonzales' watch, Federal investigations of local Republican candidates were in the tens, independents in the tens, and Democrats received 700+. That's getting into a level of using the Justice Department for partisan gain the likes of which hasn't been seen since Tammany Hall.

    The attorneys who refused to play along got dropped. Period. This is a Republican-on-Republcian scandal, pure and simple. Attempting to blame it on Congress, the MSM or Bill Clinton will just demonstrate a poverty of imagination.

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    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Blodrast
    Would you care to elaborate ?
    What I was trying to say is that America is falling apart and nobody is going to care/notice until it is already gone.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    The attorneys who refused to play along got dropped. Period. This is a Republican-on-Republcian scandal, pure and simple. Attempting to blame it on Congress, the MSM or Bill Clinton will just demonstrate a poverty of imagination.
    Huh, well I guess the vast majority of them must've played ball then. Bush's biggest mistake was in not immediately purging all district attorneys upon taking office. Apparently that's the appropriate way to get your cronies in place- this piecemeal stuff is just unseemly.

    More on topic, I'm not particularly surprised that the Feds cut corners and broke rules when it comes to such a powerful tool as NSLs. They're not new to the Patriot Act, they stink, and hopefully Congress will get off their worthless asses and do something to reign them in. Having the police essentially writing their own search warrants strikes me as a fundamentally bad idea.
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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Blodrast
    How long till one of our US fellow backroomers says that we shouldn't whine about this and worry about our own countries, 'cause we're not US citizens ?
    I really don't see why you would care in the first place, other than than to say bad, America, bad!
    Last edited by Ice; 03-11-2007 at 09:46.



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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice
    I really don't see why you would care in the first place, other than than to say bad, America, bad!
    Mainly because our legislators, often nursing much less robust constitutions than yours, look at the home of liberty and see what they can get away with.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
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    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeHonestus
    Then its obvious that its a pheasant in expectation from what you wrote.

    This has littlle to do with some new idea that the president can purge U.S. Attorneys. It has always been done and they have always served at the pleasure of the president and do not have to be given reason. The only reason this became a headline is because of the battle in Congress right now over federal districts having jurisdiction over a failed senate confirmation.

    The line in the patriot act gave the President the power to appoint directly and did not change his ability to fire with no reason at all.

    The oddity that they were fired at the same time is poor form, and thats it...
    Ahhh, just a coincidence, despite glowing reviews for their work. Let's see, judge X gets a phone call from Republican Legislator Y inquiring why he isn't speeding up investigation on political opponent Democrat Z in time for mudslinging convention before the election. Judge X, and others of his ilk, suddenly goes on the axis of evil list. Serve at the pleasure of the Prez, yes, serve the political machinations of the Prez's political party, as judicial hitmen, . Just because both parties engage in it, doesn't make it okay. This just happens to be an extreme and blatant incident. Whoever is piloting the Republican Ship of State is either stupidly arrogant or just plain stupid.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

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    Hand Bacon Member ShadeHonestus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
    This just happens to be an extreme and blatant incident.
    Its only extreme because it is blatant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
    Whoever is piloting the Republican Ship of State is either stupidly arrogant or just plain stupid.
    In the political sense of the words, they are a little of both, arrogant and stupid, but thats the extent of it. Poor show, good game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Yes, yes, if it isn't Clinton's fault, then it has always been that way, and the only reason anybody's noticed is that the liberals are crying home to mama.
    Wow, what a poverty of imagination. It must be the reality of perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    My Google-fu is weak, and I'm having trouble finding the article again, but a cursory examination showed that under Gonzales' watch, Federal investigations of local Republican candidates were in the tens, independents in the tens, and Democrats received 700+. That's getting into a level of using the Justice Department for partisan gain the likes of which hasn't been seen since Tammany Hall.
    You should write editorials for the New York Times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    The attorneys who refused to play along got dropped. Period. This is a Republican-on-Republcian scandal, pure and simple. Attempting to blame it on Congress, the MSM or Bill Clinton will just demonstrate a poverty of imagination.
    I know you want more scandal and are having problems finding it and the only places you do are in your lack of understanding the battles of governmental constitutionality, but thats okay, you seem more adept at poor political caricature than commentary.
    Last edited by ShadeHonestus; 03-11-2007 at 15:18.
    "There is a true glory and a true honor; the glory in duty done and the honor in the integrity of principle."

    "The truth is this; the march of Providence so long, that of the individual so brief, that we often only see the ebb of the advancing wave. It is history which teaches us to hope."

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeHonestus
    You should write editorials for the New York Times.
    I hear they're destroying America.

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    Hand Bacon Member ShadeHonestus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    I hear they're destroying America.
    Editorial contributors? Yes, burn 'em at the stake I tell you...
    "There is a true glory and a true honor; the glory in duty done and the honor in the integrity of principle."

    "The truth is this; the march of Providence so long, that of the individual so brief, that we often only see the ebb of the advancing wave. It is history which teaches us to hope."

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    You can always trust that Big Brother will take a peek in his own drawers once and awhile to make sure the junk is still there.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
    Ahhh, just a coincidence, despite glowing reviews for their work. Let's see, judge X gets a phone call from Republican Legislator Y inquiring why he isn't speeding up investigation on political opponent Democrat Z in time for mudslinging convention before the election. Judge X, and others of his ilk, suddenly goes on the axis of evil list. Serve at the pleasure of the Prez, yes, serve the political machinations of the Prez's political party, as judicial hitmen, . Just because both parties engage in it, doesn't make it okay. This just happens to be an extreme and blatant incident. Whoever is piloting the Republican Ship of State is either stupidly arrogant or just plain stupid.
    Who's talking about judges?
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    A little detail to add to the pile:

    The chairman of the New Mexico Republican Party was quoted Saturday as saying he urged presidential adviser Karl Rove and one of his assistants to fire the state’s U.S. attorney.

    McClatchy Newspapers reported that Allen Weh said he complained in 2005 about then-U.S. Attorney David Iglesias to a White House liaison who worked for Rove, asking that he be removed, and followed up with Rove personally in late 2006 during a visit to the White House.

    “Is anything ever going to happen to that guy?” Weh said he asked Rove at a White House holiday event.

    “He’s gone,” Rove said, according to Weh.

    “I probably said something close to ’Hallelujah,”’ said Weh.

    The GOP party leader made clear his dissatisfaction with Iglesias stemmed in part from his failure to indict Democrats in a voter fraud investigation.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    This is where my solution of killing them comes in. You get elected, you do something stupid, we shoot you. That should keep these idoits in buisness.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  26. #26
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Told you so!

    PS. It's not the Patriot Act, it's the PATRIOT Act. I'm sure somebody wasted plenty of taxpayer dollars to come up with the acronym, so we may as well use it!
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    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
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  27. #27
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    Told you so!

    PS. It's not the Patriot Act, it's the PATRIOT Act. I'm sure somebody wasted plenty of taxpayer dollars to come up with the acronym, so we may as well use it!
    Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism= USA PATRIOT Act.
    Dumbest acronym ever.

    But again, let me point out that NSLs have their beginnings in the '70s. From what I've seen, the Patriot Act only added slightly to them- which has been done many times over the years since their inception. According to my reading of Wiki, it would seem they were originally created as a way of skirting the need for court oversight and they've only strengthened since.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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  28. #28
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism= USA PATRIOT Act.
    Dumbest acronym ever.
    Crap, I forgot the USA part of it. That was probably an extra hundred grand right there.
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    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
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    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

  29. #29
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    Mainly because our legislators, often nursing much less robust constitutions than yours, look at the home of liberty and see what they can get away with.
    I didn't realize it was our job to play the role of global role model for democracy and freedom...



  30. #30

    Default Re: Shock! Horror! FBI abuses Patriot Act

    Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism
    Well it could be said that Bush and his cronies are right tools , but it is surely very debatable if they are appropriate or able to obstruct terrorism .

    Now to wonder how describing people as "right tools" will translate into different forms of English .

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