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  1. #1
    Still warlusting... Member Warluster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Jobst Von Salza leans back in his seat, commenting in no way of the recent turn of events, agreeing with Kaiser and Mandorf.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Kaiser Heinrich:

    Antipope Gregory was not approved by me, thus his claim is not valid and thus he is not the true Messenger of God. He has broken a system and tradition that has lasted over 1,000 years. All I am doing is simply adhering to Christian doctrine, before he twisted it to suit his own purposes. I am removing an usurper. If you do not believe that then you are a fool.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
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    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  3. #3
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    While I cannot say that I am glad to know our peasants may soon be revolting due to this act of war, I must also congratulate the Emperor for bringing Rome back into the empire and fulfilling a vow he has made.
    While the pope may be angered, I do not believe his anger will last for long, considering how he is now landless and standing alone. He will crawl to our doorsteps in time to reconcile us, for he knows that with the Holy Roman Empire enclosing nearly all of Italy, he is better off having us as his allies than his enemies.
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    With God's blessing, Pope Gregory will slay you himself, but know that even if he falls I will remain! Your victory will turn to ashes in your hands and you will wither and die under my gaze. You will not survive what is to come!
    You dare proclaim that you will slay me? Slay your Kaiser, the one who has molded this Reich into the glorious nation that it is today?

    I have toiled my entire life to rebuild the Reich from the ashes of the First Investiture Crisis. I will not be stopped by the likes of you and your treasonous venom. Between the two of us, you are the only one who has broken Imperial law by threatening my life! That alone is grounds for death, yet alone impeachment!
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    The Sixth Elector of Swabia, Rupert von Zurich stands up.

    It is a good thing that Rome has fallen. Greogory had no respect for our borders, and as such he was openly flaunting our authority.

    I urge caution, however, that we do not provole the Sicilians by this act.

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    "Oh, how I wish we could have just one Diet session where the Austrians didn't spend the entire time complaining about something." Fredericus von Hamburg

  6. #6
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Dietrich Von Saxony enters the Diet hall leaving armed guards on the door.

    "Gentlemen.As far as im concerned im still incharge of the safety of this city.Are you planning on going at each others throat here,since i run into armed knights here in Diet hall. My opinion is that indeed Mandorf is still Chancellor and i would really like to ask my father in law now,what next? Once you have killed Gregory,will you also kill the Danes, Hungarians and Sicilians who will no doubt attack us once they hear about our excommunication?"

    Dietrich remains standing,staring at the Kaiser.
    Last edited by Kagemusha; 03-16-2007 at 23:31.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  7. #7
    Member Member Ituralde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Duke Leopold has remained seated thus far, his hands grasping tightly onto the armrest of his chair. He had shaken is head solemnly upon hearing his father's announcements. Now he steeples his hands in front oh his face, resting his chin on it and listening intently to the uproar going on around him.
    The lions sing and the hills take flight.
    The moon by day, and the sun by night.
    Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
    Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

    —chant from a children's game heard in Great Aravalon, the Fourth Age

  8. #8
    Tiberius/Fred/Mark/Isaak Member flyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Fredericus von Hamburg stands, red in the face, but managing to maintain composure

    I shall limit this speech to considering the legality of this action. I shall not note how Heinrich continually puts his own interests ahead of the Empire. How the north has always been ignored. How it now comes under threat due to stupid actions taken in faraway Italy.

    Err, yes.. the legality. The Charter has been violated. I speak of Section 3.3. The second clause of that section, which comes to us from an old Roman law, is intended to ensure the security of the state. Originally, it was the Roman Consul who had the power to declare war upon trespassing armies, and the rationale behind giving this power to the Consul was that he could react quickly to invasions, even if the invader had not officially declared war. In our version, the dukes were added as it is their responsibility to protect their own duchies. It's a good law, if its intent is followed.

    Its intent has NOT been followed. The Papal army in Italy was not an immediate threat. It has been in Italy so long that the Diet had plenty of time to discuss what is to be done, and it has decided that no action was necessary. Nobody considered the Papal army hostile, and for good reason. It would have been foolish for Gregory to attack us, when he had much more effective ways of opposing us, such as with excommunication, or even calling crusades as he has done against the Sicilians. These things he has not done. It should be clear to all that this army was of no military threat.

    As such, the actions of Duke Otto von Kassel did nothing to ensure the security of his own duchy, and did everything to compromise the security of the rest of the Empire. Attacking the Pope is not the same as attacking some other invader, which is why the Diet allowed the Pope to remain in our lands.

    It should be clear to any reasonable man that Section 3.3 of the Charter has been violated. However, these events highlight a fatal flaw in the Charter itself. It is no secret that the Kaiser was behind this. I cannot recall if this was publicly admitted anywhere, but it's obvious, as Genoa was granted to Bavaria immediately after Otto was made duke, and immediately before the war was declared. The Papal army, that was supposedly such threat to Genoa, hasn't even been attacked, while the Kaiser has immediately marched on Rome. It is no secret that this is merely a continuation of the Kaiser's personal conflict with Gregory, and no attempt to protect Bavarian lands.

    But this is where the Charter is flawed. The Kaiser is supposed to be bound by the Charter too, but if he alone is given the power to interpret it, he will be able to find all manner of loopholes for himself and his minions. Therefore, Sections 3.9 and 5.4 of the Charter must be amended. In the cases where it is the Kaiser that is personally violating the Charter, or using his powers to interpret it in a way to advance his personal agenda, he must be held responsible. Thus, when we next enter a formal session of the Diet, following the example of how the Romans dealt with issues of military incompetence, I shall propose the following amendment:

    1. (a) The words "His rulings are final." are to be deleted from Section 3.9, and (b) The following is to be added to Section 5.4: "However, if three of the four Dukes agree that the Emperor is violating the Charter himself, or that he is allowing others to do so, they may establish a temporary tribunal to adjudicate on a particular rules dispute, and/or to place on trial those responsible for the Charter violation."

    This is how I propose that this reform be enacted. Suggestions and alternatives are, of course, welcome.

    Since we are in something of an emergency situation that was brought about by the Kaiser himself, I now urge the Prinz to ignore that the Kaiser is perfectly capable of attending the Diet, and to himself call an Emergency Session, using Sections 3.9 and/or 5.5 (the power to be a deputy in Kaiser's absence).
    Last edited by flyd; 03-17-2007 at 00:09.
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  9. #9
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Dietrich Von Saxony:

    "Indeed.Maybe we should call for emergency Diet and talk about the amendment Count Von Hamburg in his wisdom has suggested. I see that that kind of measures may have to be taken for this kind of misfortunates not to happen again."
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Kaiser Heinrich:

    I must disagree with Count von Hamburg's assessment of our Charter.

    The Papal army in Italy was not an immediate threat.
    You lack the authority to decide this. Duke von Kassel, who is responsible for the safety and well-being of Bavaria, assessed the situation and deemed that Antipope Gregory was indeed a threat and should have been removed. I trust his intent with this matter, as should you all.

    It should be clear to any reasonable man that Section 3.3 of the Charter has been violated.
    It has been violated only in spirit, if at all. Regardless of the origin of laws, they should still be weighed equally, for they are still law.

    The Papal army, that was supposedly such threat to Genoa, hasn't even been attacked, while the Kaiser has immediately marched on Rome. It is no secret that this is merely a continuation of the Kaiser's personal conflict with Gregory, and no attempt to protect Bavarian lands.
    This was a strategic decision. The Antipope now has nowhere to retreat to. His forces are unable to be replenished, and now we can combine forces and remove him forever.

    or using his powers to interpret it in a way to advance his personal agenda
    If it is legal, I fail to see the problem. Besides, I believe that I am a rather good determiner of what is good for the Reich as a whole, since I am bound to no House.

    Since we are in something of an emergency situation that was brought about by the Kaiser himself, I now urge the Prinz to ignore that the Kaiser is perfectly capable of attending the Diet, and to himself call an Emergency Session, using Sections 3.9 and/or 5.5 (the power to be a deputy in Kaiser's absence).
    If he does so, he is most definitely violating the charter, since I am most certainly not absent. If he calls for an emergency session I will override him.

    Everything is well in hand. There is absolutely no reason to call an emergency session, aside from the chance to give the Antipapal puppets a chance to please their master and curtail this campaign before it has completed.

    Also, Duke von Saxony, I will fight whomever wishes the Reich harm. Once this campaign finishes, a new, true Pope will be placed on the Seat and we will be reconciled. It will be painless, I assure you.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  11. #11
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Dietrich Von Saxony:

    "Mein Kaiser. How it will be painless? Becouse we others have all died and feel no pain anymore?.I hope that the Prinz will join the Diet soon,so we can hear his opinions about how this situation is so great to the reich."

    Dietrich looks the Kaiser in disbelief in his eyes.
    Last edited by Kagemusha; 03-17-2007 at 00:29.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Imperial Diet II

    Kaiser Heinrich:

    There will be one short battle. I am making my way to Genoa now to face the Antipope, and will be joined by Duke von Kassel and his Household Army. Combined with the Genoan garrison, we shall outnumber the Antipope's forces, and considering the fact that we possess the finest soldiers in the world, we will surely win. After that, order and doctrine will finally right themselves, and we will be reconciled.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


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