"Fighting to the death" status?

[vonsch]

Sun Tzu says always leave them a way out...

This is why.

But if you are trying to get rid of your enemy's leader (another Sun Tzu dictum, I think, but certainly a Machiavelli one), it is lovely to see him turning red.

[Whacker]

My experience is that I've seen far too much of this, the "Fighting to the Death", even when I leave a (at least I think it's pretty clear and obvious) way out for the broken units. Don't see anything wrong with this concept at all, just think it needs some tweaking.

[JCoyote]

What I think is wrong is that so many units are practically in fight to the death mentality anyway. When I'm seeing 75 man units not routing until there's only 4 left, and they aren't being led by an uber general, something's off. Personally I think the thusly enhanced lethality of the new battles is a bit unrealistic, and reducing the game to more of a "choose the right units and slug it out" as opposed to older maneuvering your enemies into routing.

[FactionHeir]

Fighting to the death units (more so for infantry than cavalry) also fight at lower strength than units that are not broken.

[sapi]

I've also noticed (and fyi this is just personal experience) that units that are fighting to the death tend to be far less effective than you'd think - I've had units break and do so with dozens of men left and not inflict more than one or two casualties...

[Foz]

I've also noticed (and fyi this is just personal experience) that units that are fighting to the death tend to be far less effective than you'd think - I've had units break and do so with dozens of men left and not inflict more than one or two casualties...

Perhaps reflective of the mentality one has when trapped and forced to fight a hopeless fight trying to escape? Animals fight harder when cornered, but perhaps humans fight weaker because they see how hopeless and futile their situation has become.

[sapi]

Yeh - That's likely the case

I wasn't saying it was a bad idea, just commenting that fighting to the death does very little except on walls.

[Lorenzo_H]

Sun Tzu says always leave them a way out...

This is why.

But if you are trying to get rid of your enemy's leader (another Sun Tzu dictum, I think, but certainly a Machiavelli one), it is lovely to see him turning red.

Hey I am a big fan of Machiavelli and Sun Tzu as well!

[Specky the Mad]

i think a good system would be something similar to sapi's, but rather than your pro soldiers surrendering it should be almost all mercs surrender when completely surrounded and with no hope of rescue as what do they care if you win.

But you would imagine that your pro soldiers would rather fight to the death rather than be taken prisoner or what is the point of paying them so much, or stuff like that can be tied in with whether the general himself would do that such as if he has the brave trait etc., as it could be seen that he is a man worth dieing for. Creating a more dynamic game when the player has to choose whether to take the risk with their generals life to keep the support of their men or have a army that is ready to jump ship when things ain't looking so good

[Daykeras]

What happened to the crazy "Heroic" status that I saw in RTW? Can I somehow manipulate unit stats to create this as a more common occurance? I was thinking back to the naked fanatics going "heroic" where 40 of them would destroy 400 legionaires. I'd love to be able to move that to spartans, and in the context of M2TW some of the more agressive or famous units.

So does it still exist, anyone see it? Anyone have an idea of how we can impliment it on other units? It might solve a few people's views on "Fighting to the death"

[pike master]

id like ta see some of dem dar forlorn hope to go berserk like the berserkers in rome. 8)