Samurai Warlords beta 8

[barocca]

The kensai is already out of control.

the suggestion to make kensai slower to earn upgrades may alleviate this?
i worry about making kensai too vulnerable to missile weapons if we lower his armour,
and BFN missiles ignore armour?
making BFN the counter to an uber Kensai...
perhaps we should make a very small BFN unit as a merc???
so player who cannot get BFN through tech level can hire one???
(this unit would have one goal and needs to be designed for that goal
- assassinate uber kensai on the battlefield using their missiles, but be vulnerable to everything else so they dont become a game winner)

ShingenMitch is well studied in military history, and he once made the point that historically veteran units were only about 2x better than green units. We already far exceed that in this game with the standard 60 man units.

perhaps we need to make it harder to level up?

Q - what effect does discipline REALLY have?
perhaps we can make low end dojo's upgrade discipline and only upgrade valour at top end of scale??

B.

[Bonfire]

@ Barroca yes yes good idea a merc unit to conunter only the kenasi but sucks VS all others.

UM R'as al Ghul i spent the last 4 hours editing the voices and sounds of the specific spot to have it totaly shogun total war sound with.

mongol music surprise during credits. if oyu want the file. i can give it to you to host it or put in your new beta. or have it seperate

[Bonfire]

i could host it my self but i think R'as al Ghul but utlmatly its up to you guys if oyu want it or not. the voice and music edits is roughly 150 MB rar

[R'as al Ghul]

Thanks for the offer, Bonfire. You may have missed this but there's a soundswapper tool included in the download. Also we've already asked CA to give permission to use the sounds. If they allow it I'll upload a sound installer that's already as good as finished.

UM R'as al Ghul i spent the last 4 hours editing the voices and sounds of the specific spot to have it totaly shogun total war sound with.

mongol music surprise during credits. if oyu want the file. i can give it to you to host it or put in your new beta. or have it seperate

[Bonfire]

i could host it my self but i think R'as al Ghul but utlmatly its up to you guys if oyu want it or not. the voice and music edits is roughly 150 MB rar

I geus i just mised the origonal. what voices and sound's are oyu gonna used ra's

[R'as al Ghul]

We want to use the original STW files.

[KafirChobee]

Downloaded it (took like 4 hours), tried to play it and it locked up because the program tries to go to the internet and my security system asks if it is ok - but, I can't get to it because of overlays in the program.

It starts as purely a Samurai game. So maybe I installed it wrong, but if not to MTW-VI? Then to what?
Guess, I will just delete it.

[Bonfire]

We want to use the original STW files.

when you say the orignal do oyu mean not just one type of voice. but all 5.

[Grimmjow1982]

Can this mod work without the the viking invasion expansion and the VI patch 2.01?

[R'as al Ghul]

Can this mod work without the the viking invasion expansion and the VI patch 2.01?

Hello Grimmjow1982,

i'm sorry but our mod needs the advancements that the Viking expansion brings. Only with Viking Invasion it's possible to add a campaign, like we do. I highly recommend the expansion anyway, it should be cheap to get and it's worth its money.

R'as

[Nobunaga]

I was reading old threads in the forums and i found plenty of talk about fatigue bug, moral circles bug, defense bug, corner bug...and other bugs in the MTW engine... so i was wondering how do u consider the MTW engine superior to STW one....?

[CBR]

Morale circles? IIRC one guy kept on rambling about circles but never seemed to explain what was wrong.

Only fatigue bug I'm familar with, are missile units being able to reload without causing fatigue if you put fire at will off just after they have shot, and then turn it on again when you know they are ready to shoot again. But that is really only seen slow firing units like crossbows and I dont think anyone has tested if its similar in STW (but most likely it is since its a small oversight by CA)

Not sure what defense bug is, but I know of one problem giving defense an advantage in bow/crossbow fights as there seem to be a permanent wind coming from defenders side that gives a bonus to their missile accuracy or power. In STW the wind direction/force was random while in MTW its not completely clear if the wind force is random.

That is a very annoying bug but OTOH it does not assist guns which is the mainstay missile unit in Samwars.

So why does some of us still consider MTW/VI engine to be better? Stuff like cav charge bug and red zoning is gone. Upgrades are no longer way too cheap, You no longer have a permanent -8 morale penalty after a general has been killed. Units now rout away from enemy units instead of just in a straight line back to defenders start line. There might be a few more things.

In STW it was not possible to change a simple thing like unit cost, so modding is better in MTW/VI.

So both engines have their fair share of bugs but the overall playing experience in MTW/VI IMO feels better but Im sure some prefer STW.


CBR

[Puzz3D]

I was reading old threads in the forums and i found plenty of talk about fatigue bug, moral circles bug, defense bug, corner bug...and other bugs in the MTW engine... so i was wondering how do u consider the MTW engine superior to STW one....?

Those aren't bugs, and those battle mechanics are the same in STW and MTW engines. You can't go into the red zone in MTW, but you can play on larger maps so it isn't an issue. The MTW engine is better because in MP the battlefield upgrades were removed, in SP the suicide general was fixed, and in both a unit routs away from the threatening unit. You can disengage a unit in the MTW engine, and the morale system is more complex especially the outnumbering penalty which takes into account the number of men in a unit and their quality. In STW, only the large flags were counted for outnumbering purposes, and it didn't matter if there was 60 men or only 1 man in the unit. There are 3 different quality levels of units for morale purposes, and units under ranged fire only suffer a morale penalty when they sustain casualties. In STW, a unit was under constant morale penalty the whole time it was targeted even if it sustained no casualties from the ranged fire. In MTW, dead men take their ammo with them reducing the total killing power of the unit unlike STW where a unit would retain all of the unused ammo from the dead men in the unit and suffer no reduction in total killing power of its ranged weapon. So in MTW it's more important tactically not to loose men in a ranged unit, and the shooing phase of the battle is not prolonged. In the MTW engine you have shields, armor piercing, rank bonus for spears and artillery, although, we don't use those features in Samurai Wars. Castles are implemented better in MTW.

You have more control over the unit parameters in MTW. For instance, you can control the size of the anti-cav bonus or if a unit is disciplined or undisciplined, and more importantly you can have completely separate unit stats (except for projectile parameters) and separate unit sets in SP and MP. This is important because the optimal morale level for the units is not the same in SP and MP, and neither are the unit costs. In replays which are easy to save, you can see the morale and the fatigue state of each unit which helps in determining why a unit routed when watching a replay.

The only deficiencies I see in the MTW engine compared to the STW engine is a bug in the single player computer AI. Occasionally the AI will overlap multiple units which are under ranged attack. This can happen when the human's forces are stronger than the compuiter's army and the AI chooses not to advance on the human's army. Also, you cannot cross water in MTW, and trees are less dense. However, trees still have a strong influence on tactics (they are larger in diameter), so I don't really see that as a deficiency. It does create a visualization problem where a unit at the edge of the trees looks like it is beyond the trees but is in fact still inside the tree line.

Units rotate more slowly in MTW which some players consider a deficiency. If you look at STW they rotate too fast in my opinion. The optimal rotation speed is probably something in between the two games. The slow rotation speed in MTW means that unit formation is more important when moving a unit in some direction other than straight ahead. Wide formations are cumbersome to reposition, so using wedge or square for moving is more important.

There is bug in STW v1.12 with charge bonus and I don't know to what extent it affects STW/MI v1.02. In the older game the charge bonus doesn't work when cav charges any kind on infantry. ShingenKrypta and I discovered this when were were testing STW v1.12 during the development of Samurai Wars. This is why players used to call cavalry "mounted infantry" in STW. If you look at the charge bonuses in STW/MI v1.02 you'll see that we had to make them huge to have an effect. We had to cut these charge bonuses way back in Samurai Wars because the charge works much better in the MTW engine. Cav can push back infantry even if they are carrying a spear in MTW, but in STW spears were never pushed back by cav.

[Nikkolai]

So I was wondering can I uninstall the XL mod, install this then install the XL mod again? Will this let me play the original game as well?
Thanks

[Wasp]

Just wanna say thanks and give a big thumbs up for this mod! Lovin' it, it brings back many memories of STW.

[caravel]

So I was wondering can I uninstall the XL mod, install this then install the XL mod again? Will this let me play the original game as well?
Thanks

Hello Nikkolai,

Unfortunately this will not work. You will need to do as follows:

1) Install the game

2) Copy the game installation folder (usually "Medieval - Total War") to two other locations. .e.g:

If you have installed MTW in "C:\Program files\Total War\Medieval - Total War\"

You could copy the "Medieval - Total War" to a folder called "Samurai Warlords" and another copy to a folder called "Medieval - Total War XL".

3) Install the XL mod to the "Medieval - Total War XL" folder (the order of steps 3 and 4 is unimportant)

4) Install Samurai Warlords to the "Samurai Warlords" folder

5) Create desktop shortcuts to:

"C:\Program files\Total War\Samurai Warlords\Medieval_TW.exe"

"C:\Program files\Total War\Medieval - Total War XL\Medieval_TW.exe"

And name them accordingly, e.g. "MTW-XL" and "SW".

6) Finally keep your original "Medieval - Total War" folder intact and unmodded. Whenever you need to install a new mod, follow the same procedure as above starting from step 2.



@Wasp, yes this is the best MTW mod by a long shot.

[HopAlongBunny]

All links to files dead.

[drone]

The Mizus server has gone away (not unexpectedly). Not the mod here so I can't update the OP, but here's what I've got:

Samurai Warlords Beta8
Samurai Warlords Beta5 MP
Samurai Warlords Beta5 Sound Addon
Samurai Warlords Beta8 Sound Addon
Tosa's large maps for Beta8

We got most of the stuff hosted on the Mizus server, but apparently not the member directories like R'as al Ghul's, so I'll have to look around later for the 8.1 patch and Puzz3D's castles.

Edit-> attached castles and 8.1 patch

[Puzz3D]

making BFN the counter to an uber Kensai...

Reducing the kensai's speed so that it's slower than the BN will help the BN be an anti-kensai unit. That will leave the BN as the fastest infantry unit. Cavalry is a good counter to BN.

Q - what effect does discipline REALLY have?

It increases unit cohesion. I don't know if it does anything more than that.