Danes: Huscarls vs. Feudal knights, Norse Swordsmen vs. Dismounted FK

[Philbert]

I am currently playing as the Danes, and I now have a castle that is able to train Feudal Knights and Dismounted Feudal Knights.
I just notice that though their stats are better, they are also a lot more expensive than their predecessors 1 tier down: huscarls and Norse Swordsmen.

Do you think it is better to keep training the earlier two troop types to get better value for money? Or are there other differences (not shown in the stats) which make the Feudal Knights types inexpensible?

Thanks.

[FactionHeir]

I never bother with DFK as danes because they are very slow and exhaust too quickly. Dismounted huscarls and viking raiders are effective against armor and a lot faster in movement.
Viking raiders especially are still good in late game due to 3 possible armor upgrades and 60 men a regiment

Never bothered with norse swordsmen except to get the swordsmith guild when I had too many florins anyway (hire and disband).

[Odin]

I never bother with DFK as danes because they are very slow and exhaust too quickly. Dismounted huscarls and viking raiders are effective against armor and a lot faster in movement.
Viking raiders especially are still good in late game due to 3 possible armor upgrades and 60 men a regiment

Never bothered with norse swordsmen except to get the swordsmith guild when I had too many florins anyway (hire and disband).

I concur with FactionHeir, the faction specific viking units will serve you well far into the game.

[Sheogorath]

I rather liked Norse Swordsmen myself.

But once you get Dismounted Huscarls you should start disbanding/replacing your Viking Raiders. Huscarls give much better stats for only five more upkeep.

[FactionHeir]

Actually more than just 5 more upkeep.
Huscarls are 48 men vs 60 for raiders. That means 25% more upkeep and 5 extra.
Also, Huscarls only get 1 armor upgrade, raiders get 3.

[Sheogorath]

Huh, theyre both 90 men for me.

[FactionHeir]

There's something called unit scale ya know ;)

[Memnoch]

I loved my Huscarls and Dismounted Huscarls when I was playing as the Danes. I also liked the fact that you can train Norse War Clerics with a Cathedral or Abbey in a city - it's nice to have that heavy cavalry option when you need it.

[sapi]

@Factionheir - you sure about the numbers?

iirc mine were identical, but I could just be losing my memory

@the op
Stick with the axe armed units for their armour piercing stats - it's what makes the danes so good

[FactionHeir]

sapi: Unless my memory fails me after having played the Danes for over 200 hours up until 3 days ago ;)

[sapi]

I guess i'm just used to playing on huge unit sizes with rounded troop numbers, then

My mistake

[FactionHeir]

Ahhhhhh jealousy....this jealousy....

[Sheogorath]

There's something called unit scale ya know ;)

I am aware of the unit scale. My point was that, while theyre both 90 for me, their upkeeps are pretty much the same.
150 for raiders, 155 for Huscarls. Since the Huscarls have better stats, seems like a done deal for me.

[Philbert]

Actually, it's 155 for raiders and 150 for huscarls.
stats (offense/defense):
Viking Raiders 9/9 (charge 2)
Dismounted Huscarls 11/15 (charge 3)
Norse swordmen 11/18 (charge 2)
Dismounted feudal knights 13/21 (charge 3)

so on paper the differences are rather large. I don't know what the armour upgrades will do to the defense of the raiders. They have the largest group size though.

[Carl]

After the relevant armour upgrades the diffrance between Huscarls and Viking Raiders is 1 point of defence. but Viking raiders are Untrained whilst Huscarls are Trained and thats worth several points of attack in reality so I would say the Huscarls have a slight advantage here.

[Sheogorath]

Well, I prefer to use Norse Swords to make up for the defence of the Huscarls. Theyre pretty good pinning units, and arent terribly expensive.
Mostly I just use FK's to guard my important cities, since (with the defence bonus on walls) theyre damned hard to kill.
I suppose if you had the cash (Sailed down to Antioch, or marched off to Timbuktu, maybe? :P) you could use FK's as the main part of your army, but that 250 upkeep can put a serious dent in your income.

[Skott]

Swordsmen and Dismounted Knights to make up the main line. Huscarls are good for end flanking manuevers. Get them on the flanks of the enemy's two ends and then roll them up towards the center. War Clerics are great for chasing down fleeing enemies once the enemy breaks and runs.

[FactionHeir]

Clerics are bad at chasing routers. They are slower than Scouts and generally less effective.

[sapi]

I'd stay away from swords - without the ap attribute they're actually much worse than huscarls and comparable in price

[Sheogorath]

But they look so cool! ;)

[Carl]

Not to mention that Huscarls with their lower defense are MUCH more vulnerable to light Cav changes than DFK.

[Skott]

Scouts are great for fleeing enemies I wont argue that but watching the War Clerics is more enjoyable IMHO. Just a personal preference is all. Once I get the War Clerics I use them instead of scouts.

[Philbert]

Are you guys sure Viking Raiders are faster? Last night they were lagging behind everybody, including Feudal Knights! This was 2 armor upgrades up, so maybe that caused it, but that makes them a lot less useful.

[TeutonicKnight]

I started a new campaign as the Danes last night, and here are my thoughts. I'm not terribly far into it, so no Mongols or gunpowder, and only one Crusade so far that I had to pass on.

Dismounted Huscarls are the bomb. I think they are the best value you can get out of Danish infantry. Cheap, reliable, and they kill like they are in a slasher flick. I'm able to recruit DFK, and I did bring a few to the fight to compare. They seem to move slower, wear out faster, and do not kill as fast. Yes, they live a little longer, but the Huscarls survive almost as well and will destroy their opposition twice as fast. And all this on the price of a song.

Things might change a bit when I get significantly more teched up, but for my future plans I'm relying on Danish axes. :)

[Philbert]

Now that I am a bit further into my Danish campaign, I must say I agree with the remark about Danish War Clerics being good at chasing routers.
They are very quick to really exterminate a group of infantry, even that last pesky runner that other cavalry units do a ballet around.
I think that the reason is that War Clerics donot use lances and therefore aren't reforming all the time.

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

There is an easy way to settle the Viking raiders VS Dismounted huscarls argument: Dismounted Druzhna is identical to Dismounted Huscarls so testing both fully upgraded on grassy flatland should settle it once and for all