Arab-Israeli peace talks?

[Adrian II]

The Arab nations have revived their five year old peace proposal to Israel, and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said that negociations could result in a comprehensive peace within five years. Meanwhile, the Iranians are peeing their pants at the thought of an Arab-Israeli reconciliation and their army chief is making ludicrous attempts to sow panic.

I like it.

[Watchman]

Well, it's always refreshing to see them actually talking to each other for a change. 'Course, they've done it before as well, and the last Israeli PM who even looked like compromising got shot by an ultra-Zionist nutjob...

[Adrian II]

Well, it's always refreshing to see them actually talking to each other for a change. 'Course, they've done it before as well, and the last Israeli PM who even looked like compromising got shot by an ultra-Zionist nutjob...

Olmert is an ultra-Zionist nutjob. Yet he is prepared to talk.

[Watchman]

And I'm guessing that's His Master's Voice playing, ie. someone in the White House finally got a clue.

[Adrian II]

And I'm guessing that's His Master's Voice playing, ie. someone in the White House finally got a clue.

No Sir. Someone in Riyadh finally got the clue that the White House doesn't have a clue. From everything I read, particularly in the Israeli press, it seems that Saudi Arabia has decided to take matters in their own hands, with regard to both Iraq and Iran as well as with regard to Israel.

[Watchman]

Well, so long as someone does. The Oval Office tends not quite be Baker Street 221B even at the best of times.

[Adrian II]

The Oval Office tends not quite be Baker Street 221B even at the best of times.

Yeah well, neither does the Finnish peacekeeping headquarters. I mean, this thread is not about America-bashing, Watchman. It's about a proposal that could, might, should, eventually, possibly turn out to be the real deal.

What fascinates me is that the buggers might start talking without handlers, without aid contracts being dangled in front of them or guns pointing at their chests, etcetera. The mere idea would have seemed unthinkable only last week.
Go figure.

[Odin]

I mean, this thread is not about America-bashing, Watchman. It's about a proposal that could, might, should, eventually, possibly turn out to be the real deal.

how refreshing no american bashing, over someone elses antiquated peace proposal. Essentially this is the same peace proposal that was given years before, nothing new, and hardly innovative or an indication of enlightened diplomacy.

But lets not kid ourselves lads, this along with everything else has got to be America's fault as well, I mean why not take the easy way out and simply blame the entire process on the U.S.?

Dont they control everything anyway?

All kidding aside, this peace deal is nothing new from the Saudi's, but its a fantastic positive step forward in the middleast process. When the physical players (countries in the region) are making proposals and chatting, its far more encouraging then a quartet of power brokers miles away with far less invested in the outcome.

[nokhor]

the pessimist in me says the unalterable stumbling block is the 'just solution to the palestinian problem' i've heard that hamas interprets that as palestinians being able to regain lands and property that have been lost to them within israel since 1945. and i just don't see israel suddenly giving up land all over israel to millions of potentially hostile palestinians. if it's done solely through monetary compensation, then it might have a chance.

[Vladimir]

how refreshing no american bashing, over someone elses antiquated peace proposal. Essentially this is the same peace proposal that was given years before, nothing new, and hardly innovative or an indication of enlightened diplomacy.

But lets not kid ourselves lads, this along with everything else has got to be America's fault as well, I mean why not take the easy way out and simply blame the entire process on the U.S.?

Dont they control everything anyway?

All kidding aside, this peace deal is nothing new from the Saudi's, but its a fantastic positive step forward in the middleast process. When the physical players (countries in the region) are making proposals and chatting, its far more encouraging then a quartet of power brokers miles away with far less invested in the outcome.

You're wrong, the Zionists control the US. Don't you see?

It's really strange to think that the Wahabis would propose a serious peace plan. Maybe it's an effort to counter an increasingly dangerous Iran? The house of Saud isn't keen on them getting nukes.

[drone]

No Sir. Someone in Riyadh finally got the clue that the White House doesn't have a clue. From everything I read, particularly in the Israeli press, it seems that Saudi Arabia has decided to take matters in their own hands, with regard to both Iraq and Iran as well as with regard to Israel.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032902207.html

WH: We would love to have you over for dinner next Friday.
SA: Umm, I have to wash my hair that day....

[Adrian II]

It's really strange to think that the Wahabis would propose a serious peace plan. Maybe it's an effort to counter an increasingly dangerous Iran? The house of Saud isn't keen on them getting nukes.

The Wahhabis will do business with the devil if they feel they have to, or can get away with it.

But yeah, there seems to be a major re-think afoot in the Middle East which could result in new lines being drawn between Shia and Sunni, based on a collective fear of Iran.

Okay, it's probably a pipe-dream, but I have always wanted to holiday on the Golan heights in my lifetime. Imagine all the possibilities of a comprehensive deal between Israel and the majority (or even all) of the other Arab states, supported in one way or the other by (relative) outsiders such as Turkey, Pakistan, and of course the great powers. It would provide great leverage to force Hamas and other Palestinian organisations to talk to Israel directly, lest they are left out of the deal by their Arab 'brothers'. Some parts of the region would offer mouth-watering investment opportunities. And all brought about by those illiterate farts in Tehran.

Shalom, Mahmoud!

[Odin]

The Wahhabis will do business with the devil if they feel they have to, or can get away with it.

But yeah, there seems to be a major re-think afoot in the Middle East which could result in new lines being drawn between Shia and Sunni, based on a collective fear of Iran.

Thats certainly a plausable theory, in addition to that there is the messy little matter of internal israeli politics. Olmert (a moderate) is at approx 25% approval after the debacle in Lebanon, if elections were held today Likud and Netenyahoo (SP?) the hardliners would win hands down.

It dosent surprise me that this increased diploamcy (on multiple international levels, including the saudi's) is occurring in earnest due to Iran (probably the primary driver) and the fear of yet another collapsed israeli government.

If the later happens, enter the hardliners and kiss peace goodbye.

[Odin]

You're wrong, the Zionists control the US. Don't you see?

It's really strange to think that the Wahabis would propose a serious peace plan. Maybe it's an effort to counter an increasingly dangerous Iran? The house of Saud isn't keen on them getting nukes.

I dont think its really extrodinary that the peace plan was purposes, it happened in 02, and initially in 1979 after the camp david accords.

Its a fresh coat of paint on an old offer, basically its asking Israel to give everything it took in 67, and then they will recognize Isreal's right to exsist and offer peace.

Essentially, Israel puts everything up front, in every negotiation I have been in that rarely happens unless you are on the loosing side of the equation, at this time Israel isnt.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Its a fresh coat of paint on an old offer, basically its asking Israel to give everything it took in 67, and then they will recognize Isreal's right to exsist and offer peace.

How generous of them. Again since when do the losers dictate the terms?

[Spetulhu]

Its a fresh coat of paint on an old offer, basically its asking Israel to give everything it took in 67, and then they will recognize Isreal's right to exsist and offer peace.

How generous of them. Again since when do the losers dictate the terms?

Negotiations start with an offer. You usually ask for much more than the other guy will give. Then you see how much you can get and at what price.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Negotiations start with an offer. You usually ask for much more than the other guy will give. Then you see how much you can get and at what price.

But theve made the same demands forever. Whats the use? Meanwhile the Israeli PM has asked for a sort of summit talk between Israel and her Arab and Muslim neighbors. Lets hope this leads somewhere.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You know, if they (the nations of the Middle East) ever did drop the knives and more-or-less peacefully coexist (Arabs, Jews, Christians, Aryans), you would end up with an area of amazing economic potential and technological expertise. They'd give the EU more than a run-for-the-money in terms of achieving status as a "power."

Wonder what the Vegas or London odds on such an occurrence would be?

[Odin]

You know, if they (the nations of the Middle East) ever did drop the knives and more-or-less peacefully coexist (Arabs, Jews, Christians, Aryans), you would end up with an area of amazing economic potential and technological expertise. They'd give the EU more than a run-for-the-money in terms of achieving status as a "power."

Wonder what the Vegas or London odds on such an occurrence would be?

the odds are a long shot because even if moderation happens on all sides there is always the vocal minority who just wont let dead dogs lie. I hate to be a pessimist, but even if a peace deal is reached there are many thousands of people in the world who refuse to believe Israel has the right to exsist.

[Samurai Waki]

As far as I know, Iran is pretty much the only major muslim power that doesn't recognize Israel's right to existance. Syria(who is beginning to turn a new leaf), Jordan, and Egypt have played the military obliteration cards and failed on several separate occasions, not too mention the Impending knowledge that if israel is to be wiped off the map, Those countries would be chock full of radioactive fall out. Not a good deal overall, as nobody would really gain anything, and millions of lives would be lost. A Pyrrhic Victory of epic proportions.
Its time to put pride aside, and be patient with an outcome that can benefit everybody (including Israel). Then after several generations, Israel will not have the Military it used to have, and those nations can bide their time to strike.

[Spetulhu]

I hate to be a pessimist, but even if a peace deal is reached there are many thousands of people in the world who refuse to believe Israel has the right to exist.

There's also quite a lot of people that believe anyone who doesn't blindly support Israel has no right to exist. Let's hope the millions that would like some peace and quiet can keep those extremist idiots in check.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

There's also quite a lot of people that believe anyone who doesn't blindly support Israel has no right to exist.

Name one here at the org. or anyone who I would know. Maybe if you call 10 people a lot if you can find any LOL.

[Odin]

There's also quite a lot of people that believe anyone who doesn't blindly support Israel has no right to exist. Let's hope the millions that would like some peace and quiet can keep those extremist idiots in check.

So far the vocal minority is winning the test of wills, Im hopeful that the increased desire for diolque on all sides will help to bring us forward in a positive way.