Patch 1.2 Release/Delay Discussion

[zstajerski]

I only bought Sid Meier Civilzation games (all) and TW from RTW,BI,ALEX,M2TW...
Cause I really thought they deserved it and i wanted to have the original game!!

But for TW from now on WAREZ baby , aint worth my €

[The Foolish Horseman]

I only bought Sid Meier Civilzation games (all) and TW from RTW,BI,ALEX,M2TW...
Cause I really thought they deserved it and i wanted to have the original game!!

But for TW from now on WAREZ baby , aint worth my €

mate your asking for a warning talking about Warez. Although many people do use it, it is still illegal and exactly why companies dont get enough money to have competent patchers

[Zenicetus]

Constructive as in "Yay, still no patch!"?
CA's performance has been a disappointment. Instead of rushing out an expansion they should have concentrated on making the vanilla game playable.
But yes, as the previous poster mentioned, I'm certainly not buying the M2 expansion, partly because it doesn't interest me, and partly because CA no longer deserves to have my money.

I agree it's terrible PR and customer relations to be hyping the expansion when they've taken so long to get this patch out. On top of that, this last-minute patch release snafu. However, they must know that very few people are going to buy or recommend the expansion, if the vanilla game isn't patched up solid. So there's still some reason to be optimistic, I think.

Me, I'm just playing other games so I don't stress over it -- GalCiv2 and SH4... and that last one, boy, talk about a bug farm. I'm still playing it for the same reason I haven't given up on the TW series... nothing else on the market like this. I just wish all games could be as solid on release, and with the patches and feature enhancements we've seen with GalCiv2. Not to mention complete freedom from copy protection. CA (and Ubi) could learn a lot from that tiny company.

[Quickening]

Point taken, TinCow.

I honestly didn't truly intend to flame Quickening. He's been on the board a while, and has offered quite a bit of friendly advice to many people's questions. Perhaps my satire went a little far, and is better presented in another medium. My apologies.

I meant no disrespect to you either. Like you I do thouroughly enjoy playing this game as it is, but in a way that makes this whole thing even more frustrating. Oh well, at the end of the day we all want the same thing

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

Warez. Although many people do use it, it is still illegal and exactly why companies dont get enough money to have competent patchers

Ahem, if you believe that then you should maybe i can sell you the statue of liberty real cheap?

[Puzz3D]

You my friend have just excersied the ultimate power in the entire equation, none of this dissapointment would be had if consumers didnt purchase the product as is.

That's the best way to deal with the Total War series now rather than buying the game and then hoping that the gameplay can be brought up to a standard that makes it worth spending the time playing. I still don't own M2TW for that reason which makes the announced expansion to it useless to me since it's not a standalone expansion. The delayed v1.2 patch also has no affect on me, but I agree with delaying it if there is potentially a CTD. Like RTW, I don't expect M2TW to be in reasonable working condition until 1 year after release at which point modders can try to do something with it, although, that doesn't help MP very much.

[Odin]

That's the best way to deal with the Total War series now rather than buying the game and then hoping that the gameplay can be brought up to a standard that makes it worth spending the time playing. I still don't own M2TW for that reason which makes the announced expansion to it useless to me since it's not a standalone expansion. The delayed v1.2 patch also has no affect on me, but I agree with delaying it if there is potentially a CTD. Like RTW, I don't expect M2TW to be in reasonable working condition until 1 year after release at which point modders can try to do something with it, although, that doesn't help MP very much.

In my opinion its the best way to deal with all pc games. Its an industry wide problem from 90% ratings at review sites to open moddable files so end users can correct problems.

Essentially (and quite brilliantly) the gaming industry has set up conditions where the end user pays for a product before its finished, and helps to finish the game themselves. its a great business model, for the dev/publisher, why wouldnt they continue this business model?

One reason, the consumer no longer supports the process with thier purchase.

[Sentinel]

Anyone that is reading this and the above posts obviously has more than a passing interest in the totalwar games. People don't come here just to practice their typing skills. They come here to learn more of the game, to talk to others about what is good and bad about the game. I have played most of the series and will proberbly continue to buy subesquent titles. I choose to spend my time playing TW because I love this type of game and this is one of the best on the market (but not the only one).
But I have been waiting for a few weeks now to start a new campain. I wanted to install the new patch before starting the campain.

They released a game that was playable for most people, but that had obviouse flaws that they knew would be frustrating to the veteran player.
They released one patch to help with some of the minor issues, but failed to address the main problems. The delay of the second patch only add fuel to the fire.
Now It looks like I will have to either wait even longer or visit my local game shops and see what else in on offer by other companies (any suggerstions?).

This is the risk that CA is facing.

I have time over the weekend to go shopping and try somthing new, If their competitors also have good games on offer, CA risk loosing my interest and business.

Whilst CA bashing should not be allowed to get out of hand I do tend to agree with Whacker (post 143), that this game is not as hot as it could/should be.

[Quickening]

Now It looks like I will have to either wait even longer or visit my local game shops and see what else in on offer by other companies (any suggestions?).

In all seriousness, Europa Universalis 3 is well worth a look. It doesn't have the epic 3D battles of Total War but it has brilliant diplomacy and is in my opinion the definitive empire simulator to date. It is extremely slow paced however and that isn't everyones cup of tea. I myself go back to M2TW every so often for a quick adrenaline rush and the thrill of battle.

I recommend that game in the meantime but Id read a few reviews about it online first just to make sure it's your kind of thing.

[Richard The Tiger Heart]

Still unplayable sieges? This is one the biggest disappointments I've ever had with a game company...

How is it POSSIBLE that a producer DENIES us, the players, the ability to play a battle siege?

Im back to world of warcraft for now...

[Hoplite7]

LMFAO, they didn't realease it!


Yet another sound disappointment. And from what I read, they havn't even released a date?

Edit: "Sometime" after Easter. :(

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

On a more cheerful note: The Dismounted Imperial Knights own both the JHI and the Dismounted feudal knights I guess having a shield and a positive armor value of the opponent helps then. Hurray

[Jokerkaaos]

In my opinion its the best way to deal with all pc games. Its an industry wide problem from 90% ratings at review sites to open moddable files so end users can correct problems.

Essentially (and quite brilliantly) the gaming industry has set up conditions where the end user pays for a product before its finished, and helps to finish the game themselves. its a great business model, for the dev/publisher, why wouldnt they continue this business model?

One reason, the consumer no longer supports the process with thier purchase.

Yes, this is absolutely correct.

Until sufficient customer backlash accumulates to the point where it is no longer profitable to follow this model, it will continue. The way it stands now, there are still enough people willing to buy immediate releases at top retail price.

I have bought and played every TW game, but even games from developers whose vision I respect (like CA's) are on a one-REAL-patch-before-buying minimum for me now. I don't count the first patch (which is usually available the day of release for most games). I broke that rule with M2TW and purchased it after 1.1 only because there were bugfixes and bugfix-including mods available. Even so, waiting until after 1.1 saved me $20, as I was able to find a copy for $31 including shipping on eBay.

I don't see myself purchasing the expansion for a very long time, because by that time the vanilla game will probably just be approaching proper status through patches and (mainly) mods. I imagine it will take a good six months for the expansion to reach that level.

So I join those who say that if you want this system to change, stop buying games on release. Make them fix it and lower the price first before you lay down your money and you will see a change in the industry. Until then, releases will continue to be set for marketing cycles like winter holidays, and games will continue to be broken for 6 months to a year after release.

[TinCow]

Title changed to make it more obvious that all Patch 1.2 discussion should be in here.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Face facts, PC games have ALWAYS been less tested than console games (maybe not now with online gaming there in fairness) as they can afford to clear up errors afterwards, if a console game is released prior to the internet on them, that was it, no patch, no second chance, PC games have always been different in that respect, if its now possible to patch console games, expect the same.

[Shahed]

I do appreciate GREATLY the effort to keep the community informed.

I think it's commendable to set a date at all, specially since we all know it's sometimes hard to make deadlines. (that almost made me choke it sounds so ridiculous, nobody cares... you just have to meet the deadline. One of the many sad facts of life) This is a business and business is hard. You have to deliver what you promise or your clients go away. Some people don't care though as long as they got a few hundred thousand dollars BEFORE the clients went away. But for any company that wants to hit it big in the long run, you have to keep your customers happy.

Thank you for the information on the patch and thank you for keeping us informed.

I do not appreciate at all the LONG hours I've had to spend looking for fixes, and fixing the long lists of things that don't work in this game. I do love the game but I really would like the game to be WORKING out of the box. Improving the game is one thing but items such as the 2H bug, shield bug, etc indicate that the product is not working as advertised at the time of shipment.

I am fully aware that, with the complexities of games in general it is expected that some things will not work. I also feel it is fullly acceptable to fix things that got through the INHOUSE GAME TESTING, and were subsequently discovered. It is NOT acceptable to have HUGE problems with the game and allow that those bugs go undetected. It is NOT acceptable to claim that an update fixes issues when actually it does NOT. Such is the case with update 1, you at CA know it, I know it, and most of this community knows it: while it was a great update, with timely release, it does NOT fix some of the issues it claims to have fixed.

I agree that we should, in the interest of consumer rights to a finished product, not buy games until they are known to be in a good order.

As far as CA is concerned, since MTW/VI I've been frustrated with a failure to meet the standards CA set for themselves with STW/MI. I've also been extremely angry with a failure to respect the clients needs to proper and continued support. This has, with all fairness, improved, and it has improved dramtically. In fact M2:TW itself is a testament to improved customer support and community knowledge as a LOT of the complaints from MTW/VI have indeed been addressed and an effort has obviously been made to accomodate those complaints and requests. In particular I'd like to say THANKS for listening to the community the best that you could.

I'm sure that you guys at CA are doing what you can, but to most of us on the outside it looks like you're taking advantage of your customers.

We are paying for a product that we have to test and even fix.

This has got to change one way or another and as most things in business it will change your company eventually... with an impact to your bottom line. Then people will scurry about and things will change. I really wish it could change by any other method, but it seems clear enough to me it will not change unless the cash flow is hurting. Then people will ask questions.

As long as, we, the clients continue to pay for this service why should it change ? It will not. the solution is to reject this standard and not pay for the games till they are working as advertised.

THANKS again for the update on the patch ! I'm really looking forward to playing the game with the official fixes. Hope it's going to be released... soon but I'd also like to commend you for NOT releasing a bugged patch. Good call ! It would have made it worse to release it. And THANKS for listening over the years.

To everyone at CA and everyone here, enjoy your Easter holidays !

[Razor1952]

I would like to counter mostly the negative criticism of MTW2 above.

I ask myself the basic question " have I enjoyed this more than other pc games " to which the answer is a resounding YES. As far as I'm concerned the cost of the game was well worth it.

As for a patch delay, I'd reiterate I want it working. So CA take your time to get it right, Sega will not allow another patch.

As for the expansion , bring it on I'm waiting anxiously.

To the modders thank you for your mods including fixes, I don't believe with such a complex game it is possible to be bug free(look at famous military software built with lots more resources and still bugged).

The great thing MTW2 has is its moddability. Our society is moving to this model for lots of things, (like wikipaedia) so CA making it so moddable is its greatest stength. I have faith in both CA bringing out great games and you modders to make them even better.

As for opposition games only civ series can rival totalwar and their strength is moddability as well.

[Foz]

Being upset and disappointed is perfectly understandable. However, ranting does no one any good and just makes the situation worse.

Actually, that's quite debatable. I, for one, get quite a lot out of it when I choose to rant about something. The biggest thing is, I feel a lot better afterwards. Also, it is the only way any of us who have purchased M2TW can make any impact at all on CA and SEGA. We already know that CA employees and possibly SEGA ones read this forum, so it's possible that any given thing written here is read by them. It's tempting to say "we're going over the same old ground, so why keep voicing negativity..." but the fact is, the more the point is repeated, the more of an impression it will make. Think about it - when someone ribs you about something once, you get over it quickly. When you get ribbed about something a bunch of times from a lot of different people, that's when it really gets driven home, when it really affects you. As for ranting, there's no denying that people make more memorable points when they become animated and agitated, so IMO those things are quite called for since they're the only tools we have to grab corporate attentions and make them realize how badly FUBAR this really is.

I never said anyone was 'CA Bashing,' though a few posts are going borderline on personal attacks now. *Ahem... TeutonicKnight and Quickening.* I am simply trying to prevent it from occurring in the first place. Please also put things in perspective. Some people seem to be on the verge of going into a meltdown over a slight delay to the patch. That seems a bit overboard IMO.

I think you're interpreting the situation poorly. The patch is not slightly delayed - it is delayed EVEN LONGER than the original long delay. If the patch had been right on time and now was being pushed back a few days, that would be different. But it's not. It's already been horribly delayed, and is now delayed more - THAT is what I think people are finding unacceptable, at least in part.

Anyway, that's my peace for now - I'll leave ranting for others to do. I do leave one thought though - this is only the latest incident in a long chain that really rubs the community the wrong way. What's coming out here is not simply the result of the patch being delayed, it's the result of every other thing that's pissed everyone off, and most of the community has been biting its tongue about, waiting and hoping that 1.2 would come along and make things something close to "right." Frankly I don't blame anyone who blasts CA and SEGA at this point: It's about time, and they certainly have it coming.

[Lord_hazard]

LMFAO, they didn't realease it!


Yet another sound disappointment. And from what I read, they havn't even released a date?

Edit: "Sometime" after Easter. :(

Nah they released it, they just pulled it back real quick. I was afraid for a sec that it might have been a fake virus patch.

[pike master]

well it was never officially released. the version people downloaded may not even have been the completed version. but a leaked version from some time before.

missing data seems to be the culprit.

to many things can go wrong with a massive download like that.

[alpaca]

well it was never officially released. the version people downloaded may not even have been the completed version. but a leaked version from some time before.

missing data seems to be the culprit.

to many things can go wrong with a massive download like that.

Well I managed to grab a copy, it seems the main batch of problems comes from not reinstalling the game before applying the patch because the patcher seems to be quite sensitive to file changes...
After reinstalling I didn't have time to check it properly but it seemed fine (loaded a siege battle, etc. what had crashed the game before)

[Carl]

Well I managed to grab a copy, it seems the main batch of problems comes from not reinstalling the game before applying the patch because the patcher seems to be quite sensitive to file changes...
After reinstalling I didn't have time to check it properly but it seemed fine (loaded a siege battle, etc. what had crashed the game before)

Any chance of Unpacking the files and uploading them somwhere so us modders can get a look at some of the changes that have ben implemented please? It saves downloadin and installing the damm thing as w'd then doubtless have to uninstall and re-install again when the officiol vershion comes out.

[FactionHeir]

Good call Carl. I second it.

[TinCow]

Actually, that's quite debatable. I, for one, get quite a lot out of it when I choose to rant about something. The biggest thing is, I feel a lot better afterwards. Also, it is the only way any of us who have purchased M2TW can make any impact at all on CA and SEGA. We already know that CA employees and possibly SEGA ones read this forum, so it's possible that any given thing written here is read by them. It's tempting to say "we're going over the same old ground, so why keep voicing negativity..." but the fact is, the more the point is repeated, the more of an impression it will make. Think about it - when someone ribs you about something once, you get over it quickly. When you get ribbed about something a bunch of times from a lot of different people, that's when it really gets driven home, when it really affects you. As for ranting, there's no denying that people make more memorable points when they become animated and agitated, so IMO those things are quite called for since they're the only tools we have to grab corporate attentions and make them realize how badly FUBAR this really is.

I understand what you are saying, but you're confusing the CA and the Org. We are two entirely different entities. Ranting may make a person feel better, but it can cause conflict here between the Org members. We pride ourselves on the fact that this is a forum where people can speak their minds intelligently and respectfully without much fear of being flamed. One of the reasons for this is that the forums are kept largely civil and stay on-topic.

Ranting now and then is perfectly fine; there's a reason the 'Rant' prefix exists for threads. However, this particular topic has so much tension built up behind it that it is likely to spill over and cause conflict between members if we do not control it. It has nothing to do with CA at all, it has everything to do with keeping the Org a fun place to be. If you want CA to see how irate you are, you can post in more 'direct' words on the official forums. Trust me, even if the Org stays rantless, CA will notice that every other TW forum has gone nuts. You can communicate your point to them without hurting the Org.

I actually think your entire post is exactly what we're trying to protect. You're addressing a rather controversial issue with intelligence and insight. Thank you for being one of the many smart and responsible people that make this place great.

[Quickening]

Have enough have reinstalled Rome TW and patched to 1.5 (without BI and ALEX...)
Will play Greece ("need" for Spartan hoplites, hehe), till the patch 1.2 for M2TW is out!!

Ha! That's what Im doing to! I still enjoy RTW as much as ever. Just takes a little while to get use to the "poor" graphics.

[CptPicard]

We won't discuss limewire here, as not only is it very far off topic and mostly illegal it has absolutely nothing to do with bittorrent

I just can't resist correcting this one despite the risk of running foul of a mod... Limewire as a P2P application is not in any way more illegal than any other P2P application is; neither is the Gnutella protocol it makes use of illegal in itself. Bittorrent is simply another P2P protocol (and the name of the original application that implements the protocol), and if you wanted to brand an application/protocol "mostly illegal" based on the fact that unfortunately ALL P2P apps/protocols are factually used for copyright infringement 99% of the time, then Bittorrent certainly qualifies as well, and if you look at the current stats, more so than most others.

[alpaca]

Right, since it's been posted everywhere else here's a bittorrent link (this is the version I'm using, and it includes all Western European languages plus the US version):
http://www.gortosch.homeip.net/MIITW...GS.exe.torrent

As for changes: If you tell me a program to do a quick checksum compare between whole folders with subfolders I can tell you which files have changed.
I can however already tell you that the launcher uses xml and is highly adaptable. We could probably even link it to a news-site on the .org if we wanted to :)
To use mods with the launcher is a bit more complicated though as you'll have to make quite a few registry entries (I'm well aware that most people don't even know what the registry is, so won't be able to do that for sure).
I'll test the mod folders thoroughly tomorrow.

I can confirm that the patch also works on my notebook now, by the way.

[TB666]

Well I can report a what seems to be a success on porting from a old 1.1.
I could attack York with no trouble and I'm seeing some pleasant things in this patch.
Tried a custom battle with billmen against feudal knights and 2-hand bug seems to be fixed since the billmen owned the cavalry once it got bogged down.
The new voices were a bit of a shock but gave nice info so that's good.
When I attacked York I also some nice things.
I moved my archers to one of the streets(I think it was the southern street). In 1.1 the AI would move it's troops down the same road where if you can bottleneck them with your spearman and destroy them with your bowmen.
However it did not do so now. Instead it took the sidestreets and tried to get on my flanks instead.

Need to test this patch more tomorrow but I'm so far pleased with what I have seen. Nice work CA if these things are indeed true and not just a fluke.

[Quickening]

Okay so what do you have to do to get this "patch" working? Im eager to make some observations of my own.

[alpaca]

The best try so far seems to be uninstall, then delete the contents of your M2/data, M2/sounds and M2/packs folders and then reinstall and apply the game to a clean 1.0 installation.