1.2/1.3 Community Buglist

[FactionHeir]

Name any strategy game from any era (other than something with tightly constrained rules like chess or go) that doesnt have a cheating AI and yet still provides a challenge at harder difficulty levels.

Command and Conquer I, Starcraft, Panger General I, North and South. Possibly Civilization I too

[Daveybaby]

Command and Conquer I, Starcraft, Panger General I, North and South. Possibly Civilization I too

C&C1 & starcraft are clickfests not strategy games, but if youre telling me that having a 1v1 player vs ai skirmish game provides a challenge then youre even worse than me at RTS games (and thats pretty poor). Oh, and on hard levels the AI gets insane production bonuses.

Panzer general is a series of scenarios which are made more difficult by giving the AI more units than you in later levels. In other words, the AI has an unfair advantage - i.e. its cheating.

Civ even goes so far as to tell you how the AI cheats at harder levels (production, unrest and research bonuses, and AI factions will gang up on the player) in the manual.

Not familiar with North and South so i'll have to give you that one - although if its anything like your other suggestions i'm going to reserve the right to be pretty sceptical.

Regardless, implying that devs are just being lazy by not programming up a human level AI is the same as implying that NASA are just being lazy cos they havent bothered to invent warp drive yet. If you know something they dont about AI development that would make it easy (or even possible) then i suggest you get busy selling what you know as you could end up a very rich man.

[FactionHeir]

C&C1 & starcraft are clickfests not strategy games, but if youre telling me that having a 1v1 player vs ai skirmish game provides a challenge then youre even worse than me at RTS games (and thats pretty poor). Oh, and on hard levels the AI gets insane production bonuses.

Panzer general is a series of scenarios which are made more difficult by giving the AI more units than you in later levels. In other words, the AI has an unfair advantage - i.e. its cheating.

While you may consider C&C and SC as 'clickfests' they are officially listed as strategy games. For all we know someone else might consider TW games as 'clickfests'.
Also, there was no mention of 1v1 games, as even in M2TW you aren't 1v1ing against the AI but there are ~10 or so AI factions. While I know that in SC's higher difficulty levels the AI gets a small resource boost (2000 minerals/gas) at the very start only, nothing like this is known about C&C1. Also, extra resources, i.e. florins isn't strictly speaking 'cheating' as its pretty standard measure to have opponents start off with more money on higher difficulties, even in human vs human games in terms of board games. In those games, you vs 7 comps on the highest difficulty is manageable (not easily, but possible, at least for me - not sure about you).

Now, we can keep doing this back-and-forth but I doubt it will result in anything more than that we simply agree that we don't agree on this AI cheats issue. So there is no point in continuing it other than having the mods eventually ban both of us for flaming.

[Bobo]

Moderators: I suggest renaming this topic to Unofficial 1.2 Buglist. CA have pulled the patch for a reason, which can only mean that they have found some issues with it. The official patch will have these issues fixed. I'm sure our community will uncover the same things so it is likely that some of the issues reported here will be fixed in the official 1.2.

[FactionHeir]

Moderators: I suggest renaming this topic to Unofficial 1.2 Buglist. CA have pulled the patch for a reason, which can only mean that they have found some issues with it. The official patch will have these issues fixed. I'm sure our community will uncover the same things so it is likely that some of the issues reported here will be fixed in the official 1.2.

Actually CA posted that they want us to keep lists for the unofficial patch so they can fix those bugs for the final 1.2


Another bug:
Battle map:
- Elephant Artillery cannon balls bounce off settlement walls and back towards them. Not sure if those are still lethal though, but it might be.

Campaign map:
- Spelling error when a witch kills a priest. Last sentence ends in "or say they insist" should be "or so they insist"

[Bobo]

Actually CA posted that they want us to keep lists for the unofficial patch so they can fix those bugs for the final 1.2

I understand, but I just suggested a name change. When the real 1.2 comes out you'll want to have a separate bug list for it (if it has any bugs left, that is).

[Garnier]

Traits:

I could get screenshots, but basically ALL princesses I see in 1.2 have 0-1 charm and are called "____ the snob" from bad traits I guess. The trait system is really messed up.

Another thing I noticed is that pretty much all my generals have the "sexually liberated" line of traits, which is kind of ridiculous.

[Ciaran]

I´ve noticed something with Dread when city management is determined (with more than one character in the city), it´s the one with less Dread who becomes governor. Chivalry works allright, the one with higher Chiv is the governor.

And then something with the rules of sucession (though that´s like it was in 1.1 before): When a Man without a mature son becomes King, his younger brother becomes the heir. So far so well, however, shouldn´t the king´s son, when comes of age, become the heir?

I´m not really sure whether that´s a bug, but there´s a sort of pathfinding issue on the campaignmap as well. When you order an army (or ship) somewhere, and there´s a visible hostile or neutral obstacle (namely the control zone of another army, ship or city), the army or ship still use the straight way and get stuck in the control zone. If I remember correctly, in RTW units move around obstacles they can see. This cost me a whole crusade army, by the way.

[FactionHeir]

I could get screenshots, but basically ALL princesses I see in 1.2 have 0-1 charm and are called "____ the snob" from bad traits I guess. The trait system is really messed up.

According to the new trait triggers, if your treasury at the end of turn is higher than 10000, your princess gets the PretentiousWoman trait. IMO CA did a mistake doing that because you aren't always able to spend all your florins and sometimes you just want to save some up for next turn's construction or diplomacy. I for one disabled that trigger in my fixes. I would agree that this is 'buggish' though.

I´m not really sure whether that´s a bug, but there´s a sort of pathfinding issue on the campaignmap as well. When you order an army (or ship) somewhere, and there´s a visible hostile or neutral obstacle (namely the control zone of another army, ship or city), the army or ship still use the straight way and get stuck in the control zone. If I remember correctly, in RTW units move around obstacles they can see. This cost me a whole crusade army, by the way.

Noticed this too. My crusading army is slightly northwest of Paris and I want to move them just outside the zone of control south of Paris (well within the green and the general would just have to move right outside the zone of control) What does the general do? Run into the northwestern zone of control of Paris for no obvious reason. I agree this is a pathfinding bug.

Now, a bug of my own :D

Game mechanics:
- The condition of training cavalry to gain points for the horse_breeders_guild is NOT working. I set the tresholds of all other guilds well into the 1000s for testing purposes and the one for cav down to 80. Trained in several citadels some mailed and feudal knights (each worth 20 points) and yet didn't get the guild. However, I then stopped training for a few turns and held races in Alexandria. Next turn I get an offer for the guild there. Thats pretty much proof that the guild trigger for cavalry is faulty (probably should be like sword smiths guild where it lists each unit individually). Also, building the castle stables line of buildings doesn't seem to give points towards the guild either even though it should. (at least the S part doesn't seem to be working, not sure about the O part)

[IrishArmenian]

Armenian Cav refer to themselves as lightcav when they are heavy cav

We just get confused sometimes!
I was going to post that and the Men-at-Arms, but those have already been posted.

[Brutal DLX]

Game mechanics:
- The condition of training cavalry to gain points for the horse_breeders_guild is NOT working. I set the tresholds of all other guilds well into the 1000s for testing purposes and the one for cav down to 80. Trained in several citadels some mailed and feudal knights (each worth 20 points) and yet didn't get the guild. However, I then stopped training for a few turns and held races in Alexandria. Next turn I get an offer for the guild there. Thats pretty much proof that the guild trigger for cavalry is faulty (probably should be like sword smiths guild where it lists each unit individually). Also, building the castle stables line of buildings doesn't seem to give points towards the guild either even though it should. (at least the S part doesn't seem to be working, not sure about the O part)

Isn't the horse breeder's guild a city-based guild only?

[FactionHeir]

Haven't actually checked on that, but building the castle line of stables buildings according to the guilds file gives settlement points to the castle. So either its kind of working as it should and there are a lot of junk triggers or its not working :)

[Whacker]

Well it's real early, I couldn't sleep, so I thought I'd run a few scenarios with the v1.2 unofficial update and see how unit grouping/blobbing has been handled.

Unfortunately, it does not appear to be improved at all. I did this with both infantry and cavalry, but tests were mainly done with cav.

See some screenshots here.



Some individuals do as depicted above, and move very far away from the other men in the unit.



Example of how the unit will stop and remain after coming out of a move order. No attempt to get back into formation is made.



This is how they will run, which is very badly out of formation. In RTW units would slowly get back into formation when moving/running, I have not seen that happen at all in M2TW in any of the versions.

Note the above screenshots were only from one of my multiple test runs. The observations below were noted to varying degrees in all runs.

Observations:

- Units do not keep or attempt to get back into formation when moving at slow or high speed.

- When coming out of a run or move order, units will not attempt to get back into the formation that they were ordered to be in. Missile units will keep firing but will not attempt to regain formation.

- Unit blobbing is not improved, in multiple instances several individuals would go very far distances from the main group and then stay there. See above screenshots.

- Setting the "hold_formation" flag in the descr_pathfinding.txt file from 20 down 1 had absolutely no noticable impact.

- Units are very slow to respond to commands, and will often not do as ordered (such as run). Units also appear to rarely ignore commands completely.

- Guard mode had no effect whatsoever on keeping formation when moving and coming out of a move order.

Points 2 and 5 make the game pretty much unplayable and a crapshoot. Kinda hard to manage a battle when your units ignore or respond extremely slow to commands. The "simulated delay" argument is awful, this problem didn't exist in the other 3 games.

[Brutal DLX]

Haven't actually checked on that, but building the castle line of stables buildings according to the guilds file gives settlement points to the castle. So either its kind of working as it should and there are a lot of junk triggers or its not working :)

The way I understood guilds to work was that you can accumulate points in every settlement, no matter if it's a castle or a city, however, you won't get the guild when the requirements are reached unless you have the appropriate settlement type too. A quick way to test this in your game would be the conversion of your castle and then waiting a couple of turns if the guild offer comes up. (But it might be that you didn't accumulate enough points in the castle yet... need to bear that in mind too)

[FactionHeir]

Hmm I just check my descr_buildings file and it indeed is city only. The way you describe the guild points is reasonable too, thus I shall retract the bug statement :)

[Whacker]

The convert_to command in export_descr_buildings.txt seems to be busted, mostly for the two biggest city types but has all around problems. It used to be that one could add a conver_to line for them, and one could change them to another city type. That doesn't work anymore, no matter what, I cannot add anything that will allow a huge city to convert to any level of castle. Further, after a random point, one cannot convert to or from a city to a castle anymore.

This was discovered using the base campaign, editing the bone stock export_descr_buildings.txt, and using console commands add_population (both + and - numbers) and process_cq to test.

[FactionHeir]

Ermm once a city gets stone walls its not supposed to be convertable to a citadel anymore...


Campaign map:
- When sending a spy into a settlement and then besieging it and the spy did not open the gate, and you unsiege (i.e. lift siege) and send in another spy the same turn, re-sieging the settlement that turn still won't open the gates even if the chance is now 100% or higher.

[Whacker]

Ermm once a city gets stone walls its not supposed to be convertable to a citadel anymore...

In the base campaign as designed, true. In terms of file editing, yes, this used to be doable.

Edit - Confirmed for sure. The convert_to stuff is almost totally busted. I set a citadel to be converted to huge city walls. It works, but I can't build above the 3rd tech level in the city, even when I demolish stuff. Also I can't convert large or huge cities at all.

[RickooClan]

Computer hanging bug:

When you attack the AI and open the pre-battle screen, sometimes while you switch to "night battle" , the AI suddenly considered the battle odd is too disadvantage on them and "retreat". The AI general will then retreat and moving backward on the campaign map. However, the pre-battle screen still go on [even you switch off night battle now the AI general on map already "retreat backward"]. If you push continue and enter battle, the game will load but lock up in the middle as it cant find the map for battle. [since your army and AI army are actually on different spot on map now]. You cant do anything with that other than reboot the PC.

I have this happen once while my general have a +3 command by swithing to night battle.

[Quickening]

You get an announcement that your siege equipment is unmanned when in fact it is the enemy who has abandoned their siege equipment. This has only happened to me when I sally out to fight besiegers.

Also, when the battle opens you sometimes get an announcement about who is winning (I mean even before you click "Start Deployment"). This never happened once in my English campaign but all the time in my French one.

[HoreTore]

Ok, this one is weird. Very weird. Just a quick note, this is my first campaign with the new patch, and I did a clean install, as well as no tweaking in the files.

Anyway, I got offered this guy for adoption:



It's weird enough that I get offered someone with 16 points in drink... But look closer at his traits. He hasn't got ANY traits giving positive command, yet he still has 1 command, and alcoholic gives -3 command! First, I figured that this may be a bug resulting from shifting the position of traits in the trait file(which gives odd results like showing the wrong name and desc for a trait). However, out of curiosity, I accepted the adoption, and I type remove_trait Drink in the console. Now he looked like this!



He's suddenly got 4 command stars out of the blue! No trait whatsoever is giving those stars! I checked through the trait file to look for hidden traits giving command, there weren't any.

[FactionHeir]

Campaign map:
- If defeating an enemy army and receiving the message "Enemy army routs", it still shows your own general as the army routing. Similarly, "Your forces melt away" will show the enemy general routing instead of yours although the game situation is the exact opposite.

[Teg_Navanis]

Something I hoped would be fixed by now: global experience bonuses (for example the one from the Swordsmiths Guild) don't work. I had a Master Swordsmiths Guild in Caen and built a few knights in Granada (which had a Tourney Field). They ended up without experience, even though they should have 3 (2 from the Tourney Field and one from the Swordsmiths Guild).

[Teg_Navanis]

I can confirm HoreTore's bug.



This screenshot is from 1.1, but I have another mad king in my 1.2 game with the same problem. (Talent for command and good with taxes are the two traits one can't see on the screenshots - they don't affect authority)

With -4 from insanity and +2 for being faction leader, he should have -2 authority. I assume that the game has problems coping with negative values.

[HoreTore]

Teg_Navanis, try removing the trait with the console and see what happens then... If you're not familiar with it, take him out of a settlement, select him, then type remove_trait this Insane.

Negative values gone bad could be the answer to your problem. However, I doubt it is the cause of mine. The reason is that there is NO WAY anyone can gain Alcoholic on adoption. To gain that level, you'll have to get 16 points of drink. When adopted, you have an 8% chance of gaining 1 point in drink, no more. There is also the problem that occurs when you remove the trait, and some hidden stats jump out...

I have absolutely no idea where the problem is...

[FactionHeir]

Something I hoped would be fixed by now: global experience bonuses (for example the one from the Swordsmiths Guild) don't work. I had a Master Swordsmiths Guild in Caen and built a few knights in Granada (which had a Tourney Field). They ended up without experience, even though they should have 3 (2 from the Tourney Field and one from the Swordsmiths Guild).

Thanks for testing and confirming :)

[RickooClan]

Disasters block the building of forts/watchtowers in a region and decrease movement rate permanently (after a reload on that turn?)

I had both storm and flood happen in my 1.2 game and it seems the bug only occur after flooding. I have a quick search on the forum and realize this bug was in RTW as well.

[Whacker]

Rickoo, this has indeed been in the games since RTW. It's beyond me how/why it hasnt' been fixed yet.

Another ... "bug". I'm hesitant to call it a bug because it's probably more of a 'matter of taste', but it's a bit excessive. In the v1.2 unofficial, corruption seems to be out of control. In v1.1 it wasn't very noticable, in v1.2 I'm struggling to keep my finances in order while maintaining a modest, reasonable sized standing army and keep improving my cities. I checked the income tab and I'm losing a LOT to corruption. Think perhaps this should be toned back some.

[RickooClan]

Rickoo, this has indeed been in the games since RTW. It's beyond me how/why it hasnt' been fixed yet.

If that is the case then should we regard it as an "intended" game feature actually??? [I know it is very difficult to understand tho... ]

And about corruption, since my kingdom is not large enough so i dont have much cities very very far away from the capital yet. May be you could build more law enforcing building to stop those corruption?

[Teg_Navanis]

I have to take back what I said about global experience bonuses not working. After reloading, everything works as it should. I'm not sure what to make of it: is it possible that the bug is automatically fixed when you reload your game? I think there was a similar bug, something to do with your capital and/or merchants, that could be fixed by reloading.