Armor/weapon upgrades

**King of Bavaria** · 04-20-2007, 12:49

Hi everyone.

Two questions about upgrades:

1.: If an archer unit gets weapon upgrades, will they upgrade their melee weapons, their arrows or both?

2.: An upgraded unit, that has taken losses, is retrained in a province without armorer/metalsmith. Will the new men have upgrades?

**caravel** · 04-20-2007, 13:35

Originally Posted by King of Bavaria

Hi everyone.

Two questions about upgrades:

1.: If an archer unit gets weapon upgrades, will they upgrade their melee weapons, their arrows or both?

It upgrades mêlée weapons only, not bows, crossbows, arbalests or javelins.

Originally Posted by King of Bavaria

2.: An upgraded unit, that has taken losses, is retrained in a province without armorer/metalsmith. Will the new men have upgrades?

I'm pretty sure that the retrained men in the unit won't gain the upgrades, though I'm not 100% sure of this. I believe that is how it works for valour or morale but it may work differently for armour/weapon upgrades.

**CountMRVHS** · 04-20-2007, 13:41

I actually think it's not possible to retrain an under-strength, upgraded unit in a province without weapon/armor upgrades. I tried it recently in a VI campaign; I had a half-strength unit of "black" upgrade armored spearmen, and tried to retrain them in a province without iron -- couldn't even do it.

Of course upgrades work a bit differently in VI as well -- you need iron in a province to make an armory as well as a metalsmith.

**Agent Miles** · 04-20-2007, 14:33

As Cambyses II posted, I think that it is reasonable to assume that the new recruits won’t have the upgrades. If you merged two partial units, one with upgrades and one without, the now whole unit may show the upgrade icons, but there is no reason to believe that those without somehow magically got them.

**drone** · 04-20-2007, 18:10

Originally Posted by Agent Miles

As Cambyses II posted, I think that it is reasonable to assume that the new recruits won’t have the upgrades. If you merged two partial units, one with upgrades and one without, the now whole unit may show the upgrade icons, but there is no reason to believe that those without somehow magically got them.

With merging, the combined unit will have the upgrades of the unit you drop into, not the unit you pick up first. And the auto-tidy function will always give you lower tech than what you can do manually.

Don't know if you can retrain a upgraded unit in an unupgraded province, don't think I've tried it since I always assumed you would just get an unupgraded unit. If you want to game the system, just build a fresh, unupgraded unit, and merge it into the old, upgraded unit. It will refresh the upgraded unit and leave you with reinforcements for another depleted unit.

**Agent Miles** · 04-20-2007, 18:55

I don’t believe in this something for nothing principle. Why should non-upgraded recruits get the weapons and armor of another partial unit by simply merging the two? It makes no sense. The program still knows which is which.

**Ironside** · 04-20-2007, 19:46

Originally Posted by drone

With merging, the combined unit will have the upgrades of the unit you drop into, not the unit you pick up first. And the auto-tidy function will always give you lower tech than what you can do manually.

Are you certain? Because I know that the auto-tidy function is the reason why low-tech generals ends up with as a 1-man uints, and as the AI never retrains...