Plot to kill soldiers at Fort Dix foiled

[Don Corleone]

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that by now, nobody has posted anything about this: Plot to kill soldiers at Fort Dix. I guess nobody else knows what to make of it any more than I do.

It would appear that 3 ethnic Albanians, in the country illegally, a US citizen originally from Jordan and two other men, one possibly Turkish, were arrested for plotting to attack Fort Dix with assault rifles and shoot as many soldiers as they could, going out with guns blazing.

I usually get a little irritated when Tribesman implies this all fishy and the government knows fullly well that the accused are innocent. But in this case, it just might actually be the case. For one thing, it seems odd that the government let these guys go for as long and as far as they did without bringing them in. Second, the statements coming out of the White House, the FBI and local law enforcement don't seem to line up. The local law enforcement make it sound like they caught Bin Laden's 6 lieutenants, the White House took the unusual position that there's no reason to assume they have links to international terrorism, while the FBI is remaining strangely silent.

I've never known the administration to advocate the position that 6 accussed terrorists just might have been working independently. Is it just me, or does something seem odd here?

[drone]

I saw it earlier, but there just didn't seem to be much to discuss then. Not enough details. Can it be true that they were caught via good police work and a tip? I'd be curious to see if they rang any bells through the wiretapping program or other anti-terror security measures we have sacrificed liberty for. Maybe that's why the feds are quiet.

At least they targeted a military installation, which puts them slightly higher than the usual marketplace/suicide bomber scum in my book. Can't believe they were stupid enough to send a training tape to be burnt to DVD though. I figure most of those get watched by the processors, checking for homemade pr0n.

[Tribesman]

I usually get a little irritated when Tribesman implies this all fishy and the government knows fullly well that the accused are innocent.

Thats slanderous Don naughty boy

Is it just me, or does something seem odd here?

Perhaps due to their reputation for exageration and plain bullexcrement they are playing it clever for once .
You may have noticed with the British , when they go all out in the press and make a big scare story it often turns out to complete rubbish that ends in no convictions or even charges , when they keep it relatively quiet and have lengthy surveilance and sting operations they get results .
compare the ricin and new suicide vest cases with the fertiliser plot .

[HoreTore]

Targeting a military installation like this, wouldn't that be an act of war, not terrorism? It isn't done by a state, all right, but it isn't aimed at causing fear among a population(just an armed force) either, so it doesn't really qualify as terrorism either...

Guerrilla war, perhaps?

[Zaknafien]

well the 'great' police-work was a tip from the dvd-copier who turned in their amateur-jihad bible school training video they had wanted him to make copies of for promotional values. these guys are hacks, if anything.

Fortunately, this sheds light on how easy it is to target US military bases. Every installation I've ever lived on could be attacked at any time of day any day of the week. It'd be extremely easy to smuggle both men and arms onto the base and kill an entire barracks full of soldiers who would be defenseless.

This group had planned to masquarade as pizza delivery boys, which is pretty scary since they easily get on posts across the US every day with no checks.

[gunslinger]

I've never known the administration to advocate the position that 6 accussed terrorists just might have been working independently. Is it just me, or does something seem odd here?

I remember one from a few months ago when the feds got an undercover into a group that was planning to blow up government buildings. I think the undercover actually convinced them that he had ties to O.B.L., and the official line was that they were just a bunch of morons who really had no clue what they were doing. They got charged anyway, though.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Targeting a military installation like this, wouldn't that be an act of war, not terrorism? It isn't done by a state, all right, but it isn't aimed at causing fear among a population(just an armed force) either, so it doesn't really qualify as terrorism either...

Guerrilla war, perhaps?

Well, if the U.S. citizens were acting under the aegis of Al Qaeda, then it would come under the war on terror and they could be tried for treason. Since the feds are downplaying such a connection, we have home-grown terror warriors who'll need trials for conspiracy to commit etc.

The non-U.S. citizens had better hope for no connection to Al Qaeda for without such a connection they'll be tried as criminals. With such a connection they qualify as enemy agent saboteurs and qualify for summary execution.

Minimal honor points for trying to target the military as opposed to a shopping mall. Assess the usual point penalties for being terrorist scum and iredeemably stupid.

[Devastatin Dave]

It would appear that 3 ethnic Albanians,

Boy, did we pick the wrong side in that fight...

[Lemur]

What a bunch of maroons: ""We had a group that was forming a platoon to take on an army."

Maroons, I tell ya.

[ShadeHonestus]

What a bunch of maroons: ""We had a group that was forming a platoon to take on an army."

Maroons, I tell ya.

No doubt tortured into involvement in the plot by my fellow Marines at Gitmo.

I believe its Double Top Secret General Order Number 210.

[Lemur]

Torture is teh funny.

[ShadeHonestus]

Torture is teh funny.

Well its is all the rage in the funny papers.

[Major Robert Dump]

Boy, did we pick the wrong side in that fight...

hahahaha

[Major Robert Dump]

If they were watching them so closely anyway, I don't understand why they wouldn't wait until after the plotters actually had the weapons. Then you could really pile on the charges, and the case would seem a little more concrete.

Anyway, the plotter who was the pizza man worked for his dad. Talk about hurting sales.

[naut]

Pretty convenient really. I don't care much for America's "War on Terror", have fun with it; if you ever get sick of being scared our doors are open.

[Banquo's Ghost]

A small collection of deluded people foiled by reasonable police work.

As I've said before, if the USA was really facing a serious terrorist threat, even half as well organised as those Europe had to deal with in the latter part of last century, there would have been far more successful attacks. Internally, most of the military installations are still incredibly soft, let alone civilian targets.

I have no reason to doubt Zaknafien's assertion that pizza delivery boys can simply drive onto military bases, which is another demonstration that no-one in power is actually taking the terrorist threat as seriously as they say. It's like Heathrow being closed down and surrounded by tanks while the baggage handlers and other applicants for low-paid work are taken on from unvetted queues at local Jobcentres.

If al-Qaeda had been properly organised rather than opportunistic, they'd have had sleeper cells set up before September 11th and much of the country would have been paralysed from then on - just look at the fear the Washington sniper caused.

Give me twenty dedicated operatives and I could really terrify the US population for maybe six months, perhaps longer. (Note to Echelon - hypothetically, old fruit, purely hypothetically )

[Zaknafien]

A small collection of deluded people foiled by reasonable police work.

As I've said before, if the USA was really facing a serious terrorist threat, even half as well organised as those Europe had to deal with in the latter part of last century, there would have been far more successful attacks. Internally, most of the military installations are still incredibly soft, let alone civilian targets.

I have no reason to doubt Zaknafien's assertion that pizza delivery boys can simply drive onto military bases, which is another demonstration that no-one in power is actually taking the terrorist threat as seriously as they say. It's like Heathrow being closed down and surrounded by tanks while the baggage handlers and other applicants for low-paid work are taken on from unvetted queues at local Jobcentres.

If al-Qaeda had been properly organised rather than opportunistic, they'd have had sleeper cells set up before September 11th and much of the country would have been paralysed from then on - just look at the fear the Washington sniper caused.

Give me twenty dedicated operatives and I could really terrify the US population for maybe six months, perhaps longer. (Note to Echelon - hypothetically, old fruit, purely hypothetically )

Exactly. There is no real terrorist threat in America, aside from home-grown whackos. The entire "Alqaeda" ghost is drummed up by the administration to keep Americans delusioned and afriad and willing to allow for more wars and a stripping away of civil liberties.

[Odin]

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that by now, nobody has posted anything about this: Plot to kill soldiers at Fort Dix. I guess nobody else knows what to make of it any more than I do.

It would appear that 3 ethnic Albanians, in the country illegally, a US citizen originally from Jordan and two other men, one possibly Turkish, were arrested for plotting to attack Fort Dix with assault rifles and shoot as many soldiers as they could, going out with guns blazing.

I've never known the administration to advocate the position that 6 accussed terrorists just might have been working independently. Is it just me, or does something seem odd here?

I was going to post this yesterday afternoon but decided not to waste my time.

2 things spring to mind don, one fishy one an observation. Congress is about to discuss immigration again, the bust happens now on what appears on the surface to be a hack job, I mean from what we have so far this dosent look like a real professional job. The timing of the arrests are fishy to me.

Immigration, I believe 3 of these clowns are here illegally, 2 others on a green card? What a great way to set off the debate for immigration, examples like these are a shinning example of why we need immigration reform in a big way.

[Don Corleone]

Exactly. There is no real terrorist threat in America, aside from home-grown whackos. The entire "Alqaeda" ghost is drummed up by the administration to keep Americans delusioned and afriad and willing to allow for more wars and a stripping away of civil liberties.

Yeah, we must have deluded ourselves, and in reality, this was done by Timothy McVeigh's drinking buddies:


I appreciate that you have pretty strongly held views. It might be helpful if you ocassionally challenged them with some healthy doses of reality.

@Banquo: You know, I don't know what to say on that front. I can't say I understand why exactly we haven't been attacked in the past 5 1/2 years. I don't think our security is anywhere near good enough to actually stop something. Perhaps the one thing the Bush administration was right about with Iraq was that it did draw them all to Iraq (as opposed to coming over here). I honestly don't know.

[Zaknafien]

Oh, i used to believe in the whole "bin laden's going to get us" routine too, but that was before I got into the military intelligence community. While 9/11 was carried out by islamic extremists, their connections to a 'global network' are sketchy at best, and limited to idealogy and faith, not any sort of heirarchy or command network. If AQ was in the US today in any significant numbers, you'd see attacks on bowling alleys and malls every week of the month.

[Devastatin Dave]

Oh, i used to believe in the whole "bin laden's going to get us" routine too, but that was before I got into the military intelligence community. While 9/11 was carried out by islamic extremists, their connections to a 'global network' are sketchy at best, and limited to idealogy and faith, not any sort of heirarchy or command network. If AQ was in the US today in any significant numbers, you'd see attacks on bowling alleys and malls every week of the month.

Then, with all due respect, you are either a fool or illiterate and don't take your job very seriously. I hope to God that you are not holding post of importants and are limited to cleaning toilets in a controled area.

[CrossLOPER]

Then, with all due respect, you are either a fool or illiterate and don't take your job very seriously. I hope to God that you are not holding post of importants and are limited to cleaning toilets in a controled area.

He is and unusual flavor of military personnel, isn't he? He has a point.

[Slyspy]

Then, with all due respect, you are either a fool or illiterate and don't take your job very seriously. I hope to God that you are not holding post of importants and are limited to cleaning toilets in a controled area.

Lol at the "importants" of literacy when posting on an internet forum!

[Banquo's Ghost]

@Banquo: You know, I don't know what to say on that front. I can't say I understand why exactly we haven't been attacked in the past 5 1/2 years. I don't think our security is anywhere near good enough to actually stop something. Perhaps the one thing the Bush administration was right about with Iraq was that it did draw them all to Iraq (as opposed to coming over here). I honestly don't know.

I think there's a good deal of truth in the "roach motel" theory. Al-qaeda does not have a strong central organisation and they got very lucky with 9-11 - it really should never have happened. They also make the prime mistake of "amateur" terror groups by going for the big extravaganza, rather than sustained terror that makes people really uneasy in their beds. As has been noted before, they achieved the over-reaction they desired and now it's far easier for them to try and kill Americans in Iraq than mount complex operations in the homeland.

If they really had an organised political outcome in mind, 9-11 would have been the opening move of a protracted campaign. The 9-11 operation was in planning and development for a long time - had they been switched on, they could have arranged a lot of much smaller scale but nasty follow-ups creating paranoia and distrust of the government rather than overwhelming popular support.

Having said that, I suspect the intelligence services in the US are far more switched on than they were, and have actually foiled quite a lot of plans that we don't get to hear about. As Tribesman noted, the really successful counter-terrorism tends to get very low publicity as methods would be put at risk. I believe that the US is getting much better at real counter-terrorism, and there is much stronger and productive co-ordination between international agencies, which is why I despair at the histrionics put on for the cameras and public consumption.

You also have a pretty secure and defensible border (well, for counter-terrorism purposes) which presents unique problems for organised terror from the Middle East. That's why a serious and professional threat would have had its assets in place before the signature statement, and alongside better preparedness and agency competence, why you are probably safer now than at any time in your history. Also incidentally, why you don't need your liberties trashed by the government.

[ShadeHonestus]

Give me twenty dedicated operatives and I could really terrify the US population for maybe six months, perhaps longer. (Note to Echelon - hypothetically, old fruit, purely hypothetically )

Are Banquo or Ghost on the "no fly" list?

[Blodrast]

Are Banquo or Ghost on the "no fly" list?

They are now.

[Don Corleone]

They are now.

I believe our esteemed moderator is on his way to a prison in Kazakhstan, that doesn't actually exist.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, this is quite interesting.

I know for a fact that there was no local anti-Muslim sentiment that could possibly set them off and "go jihad", as I live in the same town that most of them do and were arrested in.

The town has a large Jewish population and is thus quite tolerant of others. Holocaust history is particularly emphasized in courses, I'm sure much more than in other areas of the country. My only conclusion is that these people had prejudices that came from elsewhere and were simply crazy.

[ShadeHonestus]

It would be interesting to hear if any, of those involved, as legalized citizens or those holding green cards were of the 20,000 or so refugees which were brought over to the U.S. as refugees by the Clinton administration and allowed to naturalize or go home. Ironically a large number of these were housed at Fort Dix and referred to being there and in the U.S. as paradise.

[Devastatin Dave]

It would be interesting to hear if any, of those involved, as legalized citizens or those holding green cards were of the 20,000 or so refugees which were brought over to the U.S. as refugees by the Clinton administration and allowed to naturalize or go home. Ironically a large number of these were housed at Fort Dix and referred to being there and in the U.S. as paradise.

Like I said before, we fought on the wrong side.