Best in class - by faction

[econ21]

I was preparing for a stint in a HRE PBM and looked at the unit stats. It occurred to me that there were only a handful of units (available circa 1200) that were worth considering recruiting.

Specifically for HRE:

Spears (anti-cav inf) - armoured spearmen
Swords (anti-inf inf) - dismounted feudal knights
Horse - Teutons
Missiles - pavisse crossbowmen

I wonder if it would be useful to compile similar lists for other factions? A kind of "best in class" analysis. This is party to guide gameplay (which is why I was doing it), but also to think about balancing. For example, it is fine for pavisse crossbowmen to be the "ultimate" missile unit for HRE (pre-gunpowder at least) as they are top of their tech tree. But it is odd to have DFKs at the top, as they make later units types (Zweihanders, Forlorn Hope, Imperials, Gothics) seem rather redundant. Teutons are marginal, as at least they are rationed by presence of the Guild, but ideally I would hope the Gothics were better.

There might be a case for some faster cavalry to chase fleeing generals - I'd plump for mailed knights or, for real fast cav, mounted crossbows (although they are not available in our PBM as of 1200).

For England, circa 1200, my list would be:

Spears - mercenary spears
Swords - armoured swords (DEK as optional flankers)
Horse - Hospitallers (or Templars)
Missiles - retinue longbowmen

From a "balance" point of view, this list seems less problematic than the HRE one - although armoured swords are probably a little too cost-effective given their upkeep, so the DEK are indeed just optional.

It's a bit sad from a diversity point of view, that despite having around 30 units a piece available, a HRE vs England match-up leads to top of the line armies that consist of what are essentially the same three melee units [vis (1) armoured/merc spears; (2) DFK/AS; and (3) crusader knights], with the only real difference being the longbow vs pavise distinction.

Anyone who has played other factions want to say what units they would include in their top of the line army? (Byz seem to have the biggest internal balance issue - 20 vards perhaps being optimal).

[Doug-Thompson]

Egypt

Spears — Saracen Militia
Swords — Hashishim
Horse (Melee) — Royal Mamluks (I should give you some grief, econ21, for leaving out missile cav. )
Missiles (Foot) — Naffatun; (Desert Archers are more readily avalible, however)
Missiles (Horse) — Mamluk Archers

[econ21]

I should give you some grief, econ21, for leaving out missile cav.

Good catch. I was being very parochial - they are just not available for England and HRE in my games around 1200, which is about as much as I've experienced.

Well, I have hired Turcopoles, but I confess I've not got much joy out of them. They seem to have very low life expectancy vs Egyptian armies.

[Kobal2fr]

For Spain :

Best Spears : Almughavars. They give you that Brutii feeling :)
Best Swords : DFKs, what else ?
Best Cav : Santiagos
Best HAs : JINETEEEES !
Missile : Pavise Crossbows ? Dunno really, usually Jinetes are enough

For the Danes :

Best Spears : Mercenaries (like the Brits, the Danes don't get spears at all, save for the militia)
Best Swords : either Dismounted Huscarls or Norse Swordsmen (which are somewhat inferior to DFKs, but much, much cheaper both to buy and maintain) depending on what you're facing. Axes against knights, Swords against Spears.
Best Cav : religious order (Warpriests can give a good account of themselves against other heavy cav and footknights, but they're difficult to get/maintain)
Best HAs : Crusade mercs from Turkey (can't remember the name, was it Turcopoles ?)
Missile : Norse Archers. Sure, their bows suck like a black hole, but they fight hand-to-hand as well as Norse Swords do, so who cares ? In fact, most of my armies are composed mainly of those, which may or may not be grossly overpowered

[Shahed]

If you are playing a fixed game econ, DFK are quickly redundant.
Zweihanders, Forlorn Hope, Imperials, Gothics are certainly not at all redundant in a fixed game.

All my recommendations are based on 1.20 + Carl's Fixer 1.14 OR any other combination of fixes and stat rebalance. Most will apply to vanilla 1.20 as well. Except for the assault/anti cavalry class. I will classify by period. These periods represent your military development rather than a specific date.

If anyone wants a reason for these choices, just ask.

ENGLAND


EARLY
Cavalry: Mailed Knights.
Missile: Longbowmen_Chain Mail.
Artillery: Ballistae.
Assault/Anti Cavalry: Billmen_Heavy Mail.
Swords: Dismounted Feudal Knights.
Spears: Spear Militia_Padded.

HIGH
Cavalry: Knights Hospitaller.
Missile: Longbowmen_Chain Mail, Sherwood Forresters.
Artillery: Ballistae, Trebuchet.
Assault/Anti Cavalry: Heavy Billmen_Heavy Mail.
Swords: Armored Swordsmen.
Spears: Spear Militia_Heavy Mail.

LATE
Cavalry: Knights Hospitaller, English Knights_Plate.
Missile: Retinue Longbowmen_Chain Mail, Sherwoood Forresters.
Artillery: Ballistae, Trebuchet.
Assault/Anti Cavalry: Dismounted English Knights_Plate.
Swords: Armored Swordsmen_Plate.
Spears: Spear Militia_Heavy Mail.

GUNPOWDER
Cavalry: Knights Hospitaller, English Knights_Plate.
Missile: Retinue Longbowmen_Chain Mail, Sherwoood Forresters, Arqbusiers.
Artillery: Mortar, Culverin.
Assault/Anti Cavalry: Dismounted English Knights_Plate.
Swords: Armored Swordsmen_Plate.
Spears: Spear Militia_Heavy Mail.

[FactionHeir]

Hmmm my personal choices for several factions would be in 1.02 (up until before gunpowder):

HRE:
Spears (anti-cav inf) - Armoured sergeants
Swords (anti-inf inf) - Dismounted imperial knights
Horse - Teutonic knights
Missiles - Pavise crossbowmen

England:
Spears - Levy spearmen
Swords - Armoured swordsmen
Horse - English knights
Missiles - Retinue longbowmen

France:
Spears - Voulgier
Swords - Dismounted feudal knights
Horse - Noble knights
Missiles - Scots guard

Sicily:
Spears - Armoured spearmen
Swords - Dismounted norman knights
Horse - Norman knights
Missiles - Muslim archers

Egypt:
Spears - Dismounted arab cavalry
Swords - Tabardariyya
Horse - Arab cavalry (IMO better than royal mamluks in most combats, plus retrainable anywhere)
Missiles - Naffatun

[Shahed]

All my recommendations are based on 1.20 + Carl's Fixer 1.14 OR any other combination of fixes and stat rebalance. Most will apply to vanilla 1.20 as well. Except for the assault/anti cavalry class. I will classify by period. These periods represent your military development rather than a specific date. If anyone wants a reason for these choices, just ask.

HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE


EARLY
Cavalry: Mailed Knights.
Missile: None.
Artillery: Ballistae.
Assault/Anti Cavalry: Halberd Militia_Chain Mail.
Swords: Dismounted Feudal Knights.
Spears: Spear Militia_Padded.

HIGH
Cavalry: Teutonic Knights.
Missile: Crossbow Militia_Chain Mail.
Artillery: Ballistae, Trebuchet.
Assault: Zweihander.
Anti-Cavary/Assault Support: Mounted Imperial Knights, Halberd Militia_Heavy Mail.
Swords: Dismounted Feudal Knights.
Spears: Sargeant Spearmen_Heavy Mail.

LATE
Cavalry: Teutonic Knights.
Missile: Pavise Crossbowmen_Chain Mail.
Artillery: Ballistae, Trebuchet.
Assault: Dismounted Gothic Knights.
Anti-Cavalry/Assault Support: Mounted Gothic Knights, Zweihander.
Swords: None.
Spears: Armored Sargeants_Heavy Mail.

GUNPOWDER
Cavalry: Teutonic Knights.
Missile Cavalry: Reiters.
Missile: Arqbusiers.
Anti Personnel Artillery: Serpentine.
Heavy Artillery/Anti Personnel Artillery Support: Basilisk.
Assault: Dismounted Gothic Knights, Folorn Hope.
Anti Cavalry/Assault Support: Mounted Gothic Knights, Zweihander.
Swords: None.
Spears: None.
Pikemen: Pike Militia.