Heroic Victory

[Xehh II]

I'm just wondering about how to get the Famous Battle Cross on the Campaign Map, I thought it needed Heroic Victory but this is not the case with me. So far, playing as england, I've had four Heroic Victories but none of them have got the Famous Battle Cross but one was defending a city, one was defending a castle and two were sallying from a castle.
So I think I'm right in thinking that you don't get Famous Battle Crosses from seige type battles but why not, especially when I sally with 100 men vs. 1000 and win, that deserves recognition.

[Discoman]

I'm just wondering about how to get the Famous Battle Cross on the Campaign Map, I thought it needed Heroic Victory but this is not the case with me. So far, playing as england, I've had four Heroic Victories but none of them have got the Famous Battle Cross but one was defending a city, one was defending a castle and two were sallying from a castle.
So I think I'm right in thinking that you don't get Famous Battle Crosses from seige type battles but why not, especially when I sally with 100 men vs. 1000 and win, that deserves recognition.

Well it can't appear on the map being on the same location as a settlement. Besides that Sieges are usually really easy for the defender to win so you can say the odds are usually in your favor.... unless your fighting the Timiruds.

[Xehh II]

Yes they can appear, because the crosses should appear between the armies so it should be just on the edge of the settlement.

[Slug For A Butt]

I'm with Discoman, I think you don't get the battle marker when you are fighting at a settlement. I have never seen one at a settlement battle but I have seen plenty everywhere else.
Whether you think your sallying deserves recognition isn't part of the coding I guess, it's just one of those things. Just go and earn them on an open field my friend.

[Xehh II]

I think you don't get the battle marker when you are fighting at a settlement. I have never seen one at a settlement battle but I have seen plenty everywhere else.

But I have! The AI gets Crosses for seiges all the time! Especially Portugal.

[FactionHeir]

As the others said. No crossed swords in siege type situations. The swords always appears in the center of the 3x3 red outlined square on the pre-battle screen. In sally/assault type situations, that center is the settlement and thus the swords do not appear.

[Stuperman]

Wouldn't the besieging army be able to to get the crosses, as they would appear beside the settlement, like in RTW?

[BigTex]

But I have! The AI gets Crosses for seiges all the time! Especially Portugal.

Famous battle markers for sieges are placed were the attacking army was. On the square next to the city.

I'm just wondering about how to get the Famous Battle Cross on the Campaign Map, I thought it needed Heroic Victory but this is not the case with me.

It doesnt only calculate the victory types for getting a famous battle marker. It also calculates the numbers of men involved, the ratio between the 2 armies and the type of victory. You can get a famous battle marker on a site that was merely a close victory.

[Thurak]

Those swords for siege battles: perhaps the AI got them when his reinforcment army attacked the besieging army. That would cause two nice sword directly next to a settlement.

What I really love about the swords: When you wonder why your neighbour starts surprisingly weak and you later find out that he lost an army to a rebell captain very early in the game :D

[Czar Alexsandr]

One time as the Moors I took the city of Lisbon and the campaign map had the swords right over the city gates. Lol. It looked like that statue in Iraq of the swords. That was pretty cool.

[Durallan]

One time as denmark I had one hell of a battle against the Timurids, 4 of their armies against 3 of mine, and one of mine was late arriving! it was a bloody battle, in the end, I managed to win, but I didn't get a battle marker on the campaign map!

(on this day the fields would have been stained red from all the fallen men on the battle map you could see.)

I was really annoyed about it not showing a battle marker, because you can't get a bigger open field battle than one like that against the timurids and somehow manage to win

[cutepuppy]

One time as denmark I had one hell of a battle against the Timurids, 4 of their armies against 3 of mine, and one of mine was late arriving! it was a bloody battle, in the end, I managed to win, but I didn't get a battle marker on the campaign map!

(on this day the fields would have been stained red from all the fallen men on the battle map you could see.)

I was really annoyed about it not showing a battle marker, because you can't get a bigger open field battle than one like that against the timurids and somehow manage to win

Not the size of the opposing forces is important, only the odds and the outcome of a battle. I have had a heroic victory in a battle when i had only 1 unit of general bodyguard and the enemy one unit of dismounted feudal knights. The pre-battle screen favoured them a bit, but my initial charge killed their captain and half of the unit and they routed. I lost 1 man, they were annihilated. So i got a heroic victory.
On other occasions, I had brutal, fight-to-the-last-man battles with slightly less than 1000 men on my side and about 1500 on the other side. i was victorious, but due to the many casualties on my side no heroic victory.

[TinCow]

I think I read somewhere that they changed the requirements for the battle markers from RTW. It might now require that at least one side (both sides maybe?) have a significant percentage of their entire military fighting in the battle.

[Per Ole]

I've gotten quite a few heroic battles both defending and attacking settlements. I'm a cheapskate, so I don't use much money on military forces, so I rely on superior technology and tactics instead of numbers. I don't think you can earn a map marker if you have around the same number of troops as your foe or more, cous I've never gotten even though I've had many heroic victories with them.

My most recent map marker that I remember is when fighting Byzantium yesterday; I besieged constantiople with some spear militia, ghazis, a general and some horse archers. I was outnumbered, but what the heck :P

Their emperor sallies (he was in Constantinople) and my chances for victory is bad (I had around 500 troops, he had around 1200 incl byzantine inf.) By the way, my difficulty for this campaign is Medium. So I fight the bastards and win, my horse archers devestates the battlefield and I kill every last one of them. Voilà! Jiihad compleated, sacked settlement for 16k, much experience and a the best faction heir I've ever had (He later became my current faction leader, and he's got full piety, 8 authority, full command and 4 chivalry)

That was a map marker, and now that I think about it I got one for a battle at the settlement west of constantinople 2 turns later (I besieged, enemy reenforcement army flank my besieging forces and I'm badly outnumbered, I win)

So they aren't *that* hard to come by, just do battles where you're outnumbered, prefferbly badly

[hisn00bness]

You know that hill just west of Damascus?

My current Moorish general Salheddin the Horseman (His dad gotstuck there after a Jihad) has created about 5 sword crosses all around it from fighting superior Egyptian and Mongol armies.(9 command now rawr)


He is not using a 'significant part of my military' though; so I don't know about that; but these factors were present every time :


- 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 in battle ratio
- Heroic victory
- Very low casualties.
no battle had less than 2000 men fighting it (huge unit sizes)

[FactionHeir]

Any ratio better than 1:1 (i.e. 1.01 : 1 counts, but is not displayed pre-battle) and not losing too many of your troops is required for a heroic victory. If you lose too many, you get clear, average or close.

No significant portion required. A lone general against a knight unit qualifies.

[Shahed]

It has somerthing to do with enemy strength calculation as well, according to the autoresolve stats. I've killed peasant armies before and got nothing, 1 Bodyguard vs 600 rebels... not heroic ? Well it seems it is'nt for this game. However 1 Bodyguard vs 600 HRE of which 300 cavalry, 300 DGK => Heroic Victory. (exagerrated example)

There is a qualitative factor.

[FactionHeir]

Knights in general shift the pre battle balance a lot, so killing peasants is almost never going to get you a heroic victory.

[darth_napo]

it's actually only depends on 2 thing :

in battle army ratio.
your loss ratio.

I once had a battle 1450 vs 3300 BUT pre battle strength ratio STILL FAVORED ME, however I managed to won only with 360 men lost and got heroic victory.

[khaos83_2000]

A rather easy way for a heroic victory is a bridge battle.

Look for a full enemy stack then u put a half stack or strength compared to them on a bridge near them. The AI seriously can't resist taking the bait. Engage them when they attack u and claim ur heroic victory.

[Foz]

Can anyone sum up what we actually know (or are reasonably sure of) about what is required for this achievement? This thread is full of conflicting information and pure speculation, so I'm trying to get a feel for what is really known about this feature of the game.

[WhiskeyGhost]

As far as i have seen, the only times i get heroic victories, is if the following 2 circumstances are met:

1. Odds are against you in auto-calc (my guess is somewhere around 40%-60%)

and

2. Completely kick the enemies butt across the battlefield.

In other words, if you've fielded 500 peasant archers against 500 DFK's (this is an example, not a real circumstance) and you come out with something along the lines of 400 archers vs 100 DFK's as an end result, you not only had the battle considered greatly against you, but you pulled off some sort of tactical genius stuff that allowed you to perform better then what the enemy should have with their advantage.

This is only an observation though, if anyone comes up with some hard numbers I am sure many would be happy to see them

[Per Ole]

I don't really think it's all about units lost. Check out these three:





You can try to figure out something by looking at them. got map marker for both heroic victories, but not for the clear one (duh)

PS all these battles were HARD difficulty

[Per Ole]

goddamnit those pics didn't work, and there's no way to edit so I'll try again, and this time I'll provide the link as well in case they don't work:

[IMG]E:\Fraps\medieval2 2007-04-29 23-11-42-07[/IMG]
[IMG]E:\Fraps\medieval2 2007-05-19 19-52-40-87[/IMG]
[IMG]E:\Fraps\medieval2 2007-05-14 22-08-59-29[/IMG]

http://www.mypicshare.com/jzflrvpipic.html
http://www.mypicshare.com/nwfnodtfpic.html
http://www.mypicshare.com/vnfgcuglpic.html

[Joshwa]

What'd be cool is if you could click on the swords to get the stats of the battle, and watch the replay! That'd be freakin awesome