Imperial Diet III

[FactionHeir]

OOC: You can only ask for vassalage if the faction is hostile. Assistance is near impossible even with immaculate reputation. Ditto with Untrustworthy.

[Ignoramus]

OOC: Does the Kaiser really need that much influence in Diet elections? It's obvious that econ21 holds the deciding vote.

[Stig]

Ansehelm comes walking into the Diet again and immediatly he begins to speak

Meine Herren, do you remember me mentioning that the cities here in the south are rioting? I bet you do. And do you remember us thinking of a way to solve it, even though the Honourable Hans couldn't solve it? I bet you do.
Well I've been here in Italy for a couple of weeks now, and I must say, people are clearly unhappy. And there's one simple reason: THE TAXES!!!

Why do you force these people to pay very high tax rates if they cannot pay it. You're forcing these people to riot, it's either die of hunger or overthrow the current leaders.

What do you say about lowering the taxes, make the people happy again. Happiness should be about 100%, not around 85%. People should be happy with us again, and it clearly doesn't look like that's so now. The Honourable Hans claims that we are getting more income every year, well that means that the taxes can go down. Be good for the people, don't be gready and take everything yourselves.

Ansehelm sits down again and commands his servants to fetch him a strange drink, ice and ice cold, with some strange deer engraved on the bottle.

[FactionHeir]

Indeed, I could have lowered the taxes, but as there was no risk of actual riots and governors all commanded taxes be so high as to not cause riots, would you go against that?

[Stig]

I would, and I suggest that the governors lower the taxes for the next 20 years. We get enough money anyway

[Stuperman]

OOC: lower taxes means more population, which makes our problem worse, and this isn'y the place for OOC discussion.

IC: I think we should give Iconicum and Sofia to the Byzantines in exchange for assitance against the Turks, We'll be busy with the Mongols, and the Egyptians.

[gibsonsg91921]

I doubt the Byzantines would be stupid enough to betray us, their protectors. Of course, I never thought we would ambush, even accidentally, a Crusade army, so odder things have happened.

OOC: Don't doubt the wonders of this game's AI

[McIwoo]

I do not think Edict 10.8 is the wisest way to help our allies the Byzantine Empire for in case the region is taken away from friendly hands, whereas by The Eastern Empire turning on us or by a foreign army conquering it; it would requiere more of our people's blood to take it back.

A wiser decision in my humble opinion could be to lend a host to the Eastern Empire or to settle on a regular amount of gold paid on the Imperial budget.

For the matter of the Italian disorder, I have also raised the issue in the past. As Count of Marseille, I do not believe that lowering the taxes would do as much good as increasing and/or improving the administration and local government as well as leisure facilities. The Chancellor by his actions have seemed to take this path which I think will serve us well.

[Stig]

Actualyl Marseille is one of the worst cities to be, young Marcus.
I think there's still much to learn. Leisure activities cost money, money we also need for the wars in the Outremer and East. If we lower the taxes it too will cost us money, but over a short time less. Sides leisure activities don't really help.

And next to that it's the Bavarians that are having these problems, and the other houses that need the money are troubled by it. Because you want to give your people something to do, we can't do what we want!

Ansehelm sits down mocking

[FactionHeir]

As far as I am aware, only the racing tracks in Outremer cost additional florins to maintain, the brothels in Italy do not.

[Stig]

They do cost money to build tho. Sometimes upto 6000 Florins. I could buy myself a nice army for that

[Stuperman]

They do cost money to build tho. Sometimes upto 6000 Florins. I could buy myself a nice army for that

And maintain it for how long?

if you build a building that allows you to keep taxes high then eventually the building will pay for it's self.

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren

What is this nonsense. With high taxes we will keep our cities manageable and fund our armies. If the population of Northern Italy cant tolerate beeing taxed like every other city dwellers in the Reich are,maybe we should let them rebel and give them reminder who are their masters by hanging few of them from the city walls after putting the trouble makers to the sword. Maybe we should set an example?

[Stuperman]

Gerhard Steffen

I don't think that's necessary just yet Jonas, but in time it may be.

OOC: Eventually the pop growth shoudl satbilize at 'orange', right?

[Stig]

Actually Gerhard the buildings don't help that much if you keep the taxes high.
On day one people are pissed off because of the high taxes, on day two they get more pissed off, etcetera. Now you build a building again they become somewhat more happy again, after that it will just start to drop again.



(OOC: it doesn't matter if you have buildings with +5% happiness, high taxes will make sure happiness drops overtime, it won't stop, it'll keep dropping).

[AussieGiant]

My Lords two things.

First, I will leave edict 10.8 as worded. You are free to vote on the legislation as you see fit. The Chancellor has leeway to ensure some reassurances from the Byzantine's.

Secondly, in preparation for the coming elections I hereby appoint Sigismund von Mahren Count of Venice.

Please ensure the administrative matters are attended to regarding the voting record.

[AussieGiant]

Austria has another administrative matter.

We have a 4th Elector of Austria (Ituralde). He is hereby appoint the Count of Budapest.

Please have this recording in the voting documents.

[AussieGiant]

In tne Official Voting lists there is an omission.

The full edict should read:

Edict 10.8

Sofia shall be given to the Byzantine Empire in the year 1250.

This shall ensure direct and safe military access via land to Outremer.

All attempts must be made to maintain this land bridge using all means at our disposal.

--------------

Those directives under the year are necessary and binding aspects.

[OverKnight]

OOC: Updated legislation list (Yes AG, yours too. :P) :

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...17&postcount=9

[McIwoo]

I cannot help to have noticed that our dear Count of Thorn spoke about the leisure part of my intervention; lacking to observe that I also mentioned improving the local administrations. But this is as good as it gets with the Empire “politics” I suppose. We all have our areas of interest, those closer to our daily problems.

What the Count of Magdeburg, whom, may I precise is also from the House of Franconia, hasn't apparently noticed is that if the Empire doesn't have the rich cities of Northern Italy paying juicy taxes, we cannot afford such an extended oversee military force as our expensive expedition in the Holy Land while having armed forces capable of defending our Home lands. The rebelling County of Marseille, as rioting as it is, if you allow me the approximation, is paying for the salary, equipment and training of your Franconian household army. This is not said in order to brag but to try to give you a sense of the importance of this topic.

For the record, if you seriously think about slaughtering a population of tax paying rich tradesmen and citizen who are the very economical heart of our dear Empire, this even without considering the alternatives, you might consider slaughtering the population of “every other city dwellers in the Reich” for not putting enough gold into the imperial vaults.

[Stig]

Talk sense young Markus, look at the cities, and you'll see that mainly the people in Italy are unhappy, all others are happy with what's happening, and they are even further from the capitals.

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren

Count of Marseille. Im very happy to hear your education of the economical situation of the Reich.While you yourself dont understand that Franconia with Hamburg as the trade center holds the Baltic Sea trade on its grasp. We dont need the Italian Money. And personally if you want to tell me about crusading please go through one and come back then to talk how much it is has to do with Italian merchants. I dont care what subjects of the reich behave rebelliosly. If that happends im more then ready to put them into sword,whether they were Italians or French or bloody heathens in Outremer. Each morning that i wake up i thank the lord for living in the North where are still true Germans.

[OverKnight]

Matthias looks discouraged at the current topic of discussion.

My lords, the fact is that no city in the Reich is currently in rebellion. I believe Marseille had a relatively harmless and brief uprising that was quickly put down a few years ago. An astute Chancellor will be able to adjust tax levels to avoid rebellion and fill the coffers of the Reich.

The cities of Bavaria are are as loyal as any in the Reich, but the large populations of the Italian cities makes them a bit more. . .restive. Could we please cease talking about putting them to the sword? None have rebelled. This rhetoric serves no purpose.

As for "True Germans", a man from Milan is as much an Imperial citizen as one from Magdeburg. Both settlements were not part of the Reich in 1080, they were both taken from our enemies, the Milanese and the Poles. Much has happened since they were both frontier holdings, rife with yearning for their former masters. Both are now integral parts of the Reich, Magdeburg as a troop center and Milan as a financial one. To denigrate one is to insult the other.

[AussieGiant]

Looking up from various reports Arnold speaks

Bloody hell Matthias, you're a born diplomat!!

Maybe we should have you negotiate with the Horse Lords!!??

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren

Matthias.When im talking about Germans.Im talking about Germans. Magdeburg is a German city.While it was in the hands of the rebels before it was captured again.The Holy Roman Empire and German peoples is not the same thing. As Kings of Rome the German Kaisers rule the Holy Roman Empire,but that doesnt mean that dirty Italians or lazy French are Germans even if they are subjects of Holy Roman Empire or that they will ever be Germans like Bavarians,Swabians,Austrians,Francs or Saxons.
Also the people of Outremer are not Germans.And i would say that even a Bavarian,Saxon or Franconian commononer would be insulted if he would be claimed as same as the serfs in Outremer. So i remain in my stand.If the Italian cities wont pay taxes the same amount as God fearing Germans.We should teach them how to start paying their taxes, swiftly and decisevely.

[Stig]

The wise Von Mahren is right, and I think it's good that anyone who is less than half his age atleast listens to what he has to say, as mostlikely he will be more right than you are.
I govern Thorn, and it isn't a German city, the people there are more Polish and Baltic. Prussian to be precise, not German as in Frankfurt and Magdeburg.

Though we can say whatever we want about the citizens, I must point out that the Bavarian governors are still young and very inexperienced. I heard Matthias for example is a poor administrator who lacks justice. That's all simply due to age. I myself am 27 now, and still have many things to learn.

But atleast the people in Thorn are happy.

[OverKnight]

With all due respect to my elders, Count von Mahren and Count von Kastilien, Milan too was a possesion of the Reich's before it rebelled. It has been reclaimed as well.

As for Thorn, well people are naturally more content within a Castle's walls, either because of the protection or for fear of the garrison.

[FactionHeir]

I would like to believe that after 150 years of Imperial rule, our heartlands are almost exclusively populated by Germans.

[Cecil XIX]

I disagree. The Reich as encompassed many different peoples for generations, since they are all freer to move about inside our borders then between them I would imagine that are cities are not as ethnically monotone as they once were.

[Cecil XIX]

This portion of the transcript has been hastily but completely scribbled out.