Billmen

[Silverhawk]

One thing I've found Billmen really useful for is breaking up the inevitable French Armoured spearman blocks you face 20-60 turns in (that is, if you've not smashed them by this time). Spearman for spearman, the French will generally grind English armies back but a head-on charge with Billmen breaks their lines up really well. They also chew up Knights if you can catch them in the flank or rear after they get tied up on braced spears.

[Andaius]

The first level billmen also have very low armor so don't stand very long head to head, however they make exellent flankers. They have weapons that are effective against armor so can eat them alive. Armored Billmen have better armor so can take a frontal attack better but I still prefer Sword & shield troops for the Anti-spear/Infantry work. So generally speaking use them on the flanks or rear of armored opponets for maximum effectiveness!

[Doug-Thompson]

They are cheap.

Billman cannot beat good infantry 1 vs. 1, but can 3 vs. 2 or so. They survive combat with infantry better than spear units.

[Silverhawk]

Here's some testing I did of Billmen...

Billmen (armour upgrade 1) vs Armoured Sergeants (HUGE unit settings, med difficulty, grassy plains. Billmen always listed first, deployed in three ranks to get similar unit width as spears have in four. Numbers listed are remaining men at the time of rout).

73 - 67 (Billmen win, Sergeants lost approx 50 on billmen charge)
71 - 62 (Billmen win, Sergeants lost approx 50 on billmen charge)
48 - 79 (Billmen lose, Sergeants lost appox 30 on billmen charge)
84 - 70 (Billmen win, Sergeants lost approx 55 and general on charge)
67 - 54 (Billmen win, Sergeants lost approx 45 on billmen charge)

The numbers aren't scientifically gathered, they were grabbed by me without pausing just because I wanted it done quick, but they won't be more than 3-5 off at most, which gives a reasonable variance for accuracy. They stand up quite well against good spears. :)

[Doug-Thompson]

Here's something I've never tried, but will someday:

1. Build militia units of archers, billmen and even militia merchant cavalry, and keep them in cities where upkeep is free.

2. Build some fleets at those cities.

3. Move the militia onto the ships and have a leader on one of the ships. Have them rendezvous at sea.

4. Land on an enemy coast near a coastal city. Build siege equipment. On the next turn, assault and take it.

Should be a cheap way to organize an offensive. Well, cheap except for the fleets.

[Von Nanega]

Doug-Thompson, I will try that now. Might as well! If it does not work, out of some militia.

[Foz]

Here's some testing I did of Billmen...

Billmen (armour upgrade 1) vs Armoured Sergeants (HUGE unit settings, med difficulty, grassy plains. Billmen always listed first, deployed in three ranks to get similar unit width as spears have in four. Numbers listed are remaining men at the time of rout).

73 - 67 (Billmen win, Sergeants lost approx 50 on billmen charge)
71 - 62 (Billmen win, Sergeants lost approx 50 on billmen charge)
48 - 79 (Billmen lose, Sergeants lost appox 30 on billmen charge)
84 - 70 (Billmen win, Sergeants lost approx 55 and general on charge)
67 - 54 (Billmen win, Sergeants lost approx 45 on billmen charge)

The numbers aren't scientifically gathered, they were grabbed by me without pausing just because I wanted it done quick, but they won't be more than 3-5 off at most, which gives a reasonable variance for accuracy. They stand up quite well against good spears. :)

Note the armor upgrade 1 on the Billmen in this test. It is hugely important that you give your Billmen at least the first upgrade, as it boosts their defense 4 points. Even so, I wouldn't fight them against a non-spear unit from the front - they get slaughtered by units with good weapons b/c of their low defense. As mentioned earlier in the thread, they are best put to use as the hammer to your cheap spear anvil. They pack one of the biggest wallops available with a 15/ap attack, especially when you consider how early they become available. They are a bit fragile, but are quite amazing if employed as suggested.

[HoreTore]

As Foz said, give them the leather armour and don't send them head-on at sword units, you have your english knights for that job. It's an early unit, so that should give you some idea of what to use it against. You can flank pretty much everything with them, but be careful of charging anything stronger than spearmen head-on(and armoured spears are pushing it, make sure you have some reinforcements appear to break them).

So, for the natural enemies of the english, this means the following units are fair game:

- All missiles(well not the late tough archers, like the scots guard)
- Town milita
- spear milita
- peasants, pilgrims and fanatics
- sergeant spearmen
- highland pikes
- viking raiders
- Merc, armoured and crusader spearmen

[Aquitaine]

Given this information, why and when would you recruit billmen and not, say, armored swordsmen or DFK?

Do billmen have a place in a late-game English army in 1.2? I loved my billmen in MTW, and I played the English under 1.0 and just never used them.

[Silverhawk]

Note the armor upgrade 1 on the Billmen in this test. It is hugely important that you give your Billmen at least the first upgrade, as it boosts their defense 4 points.

I've always assumed that if you're going to produce any sort of mediocre spears/billmen units in an English army then they're going to have some form of armour upgrade, so a blank test seemed rather irrelevant.

But, yes, for the rest of your points I wholeheartedly agree. There's certainly no point in sending them head-on into swords, foot knights, or any sort of non-spear/archer unit unless you want them to die in droves. They're fantastic for flanking, much like foot "cavalry" as has been mentioned already, but with how easily they can be produced (from Caen with one upgrade, so turn three or four?) they can help smash a few holes into the early French lines for a really, really cheap (and easily replaced) price.

Then again, I just love them anyway, so I'm likely to be biased.