Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 41

Thread: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

  1. #1
    Member Member Satyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Ca
    Posts
    587

    Default So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    I quit playing a long time ago and was wondering if 1.2 was actually good enough not to frustrate the heck out of me like 1.1 did?

  2. #2
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    4,979

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    I'd say yes. Diplomacy is so much better and other things are generally improved. 2H bug is fixed, and while it might unbalance things a little, it's far improved.

  3. #3
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Well, except for the retraining bug, the outrageously silly siege/sally AI, the nonsensical auto-pick of heirs, the diplomatic oddities, the lack of unit balance and only very slightly improved 2H unit animations, I would say 1.02 is playable.
    A bit better with various fix modifications, but the AI, retraining bug and heir issue cannot be fixed by modders without violating the exe/hardcode. And of course the random port blockades.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  4. #4
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    4,979

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Retraining bug?

  5. #5
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    The one where:
    1. if you load a game where a unit is still in retraining and do not remove/reenter it
    2. if (sometimes) you build a building giving a local experience bonus to a unit type trained
    3. if you add/remove a unit repeatedly from train/retraining
    4. or even sometimes randomly occuring

    All unit training facilities you own will churn out experience 0 units (either trained or retrained) until you fix it by removing all units from training AND retraining queues and perform an action that resets the seed (i.e. spying) and then end turn.
    Last edited by FactionHeir; 05-23-2007 at 00:23.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr
    I quit playing a long time ago and was wondering if 1.2 was actually good enough not to frustrate the heck out of me like 1.1 did?
    Probably not, given your previous hostility to the title.

    The main change in 1.2 is fixing the shield and two hander bugs. They had become gamekilling bugs to me, but that was probably more because I knew they existed than because they really ruined the gameplay. With those fixes, kill rates generally fall a little, poor units (spears + 2H) become a little better. It feels more realistic as a result.

    The other big thing I have noticed is that diplomacy has been tweaked, so that even on VH, relations with allies don't seem to worsen over time and in fact seem to improve. If you want a game where you don't have to fight every neighbour (without spending lots of florins and effort on diplomacy), then 1.2 allows that.

    Beyond that, it's largely the same game. The tactical AI is not that different. I find it good enough, although we have disagreed about that before and it's certainly not stellar.

    The big weakness for me is the strategic AI - I started a AAR in the Throne room to try to prove that the game could be challenging. However, the surprising thing I discovered were that nearly all the battles I fought were ones where I was attacking at favourable odds. The strategic AI just does not give the AI a chance. It desperately needs more coding to keep small armies out of danger and to only attack when the odds are well in its favour.

  7. #7
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Bedfordshire UK
    Posts
    2,368

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir
    The one where:
    1. if you load a game where a unit is still in retraining and do not remove/reenter it
    2. if (sometimes) you build a building giving a local experience bonus to a unit type trained
    3. if you add/remove a unit repeatedly from train/retraining
    4. or even sometimes randomly occuring

    All unit training facilities you own will churn out experience 0 units (either trained or retrained) until you fix it by removing all units from training AND retraining queues and perform an action that resets the seed (i.e. spying) and then end turn.
    Sorry, that makes no sense to me, can you go over it again but with a bit more explanation.
    Didz
    Fortis balore et armis

  8. #8
    Member Member Skott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    434

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    1.2 did fix some things but not all things. It was a step forward but not a huge jump or anything like that. IMHO its the mods like LtC that truly make this game playable and enjoyable enough to keep me playing it. The modders were fixing things and getting better play balance than anything CA did.

    CA is going to have to make a huge stride forward with Kingdoms or they're gonna start losing fan base I think. They got really sloppy with M2TW IMHO. Bugs so obvious a 5 year old could point it out. And there were alot of them too. Play balance testing was needed more too I think. If they repeat this in Kingdoms its gonna hurt them badly I think.

  9. #9
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz
    Sorry, that makes no sense to me, can you go over it again but with a bit more explanation.
    Basically you know that some buildings give a local or global bonus to experience for certain units trained. Say a barracks giving armoured sergeants that are normally trained with an experience of 0 now getting trained with experience 1.
    This bug, when the conditions I listed occur, causes those sergeants who should be trained at experience 1 to come out at experience 0 and thus available to retraining.
    If you retrain them, they still stay at experience 0 but burn up the florins you spent on retraining (which you didn't even have to spend if the bug didn't make them 0 to start out with). You can keep doing that and lose florins that way.
    This of course applies mainly to cavalry, which can, with the right buildings, be trained at experience 4 or higher. Getting an experience 0 cavalry due to this bug and then spending some 600 florins for retraining that does nothing and eats up your queue in addition is a very annoying and, for me, game breaking bug.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  10. #10
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    4,979

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    That's ugly, though I haven't noticed it.

    Retraining bug notwithstanding, I'd say 1.2 makes MTW2 better than BI 1.6 made RTW. Actually playable and pretty fun.

    Of course, I've been tweaking 1.2 with my own changes (stolen off these boards and TWC) and have had some improvements and some frustrations.

  11. #11
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Bedfordshire UK
    Posts
    2,368

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir
    If you retrain them, they still stay at experience 0 but burn up the florins you spent on retraining (which you didn't even have to spend if the bug didn't make them 0 to start out with). You can keep doing that and lose florins that way.
    OMG! I think I had/have that bug in my Moorish Campaign but didn't realise it.

    In Marrakesh I built a Hashashim's Guild and trained 4 groups of Hashashim there. The first group was trained and sent to join the army at Tunis. The other three were not completed until after the Guild had been upgraded and for some reason seemed to need retraining every turn so they never left the city.

    I must have paid for their retraining four or five times before they finally stopped demanding it.

    So, how consistent is this bug?
    Does it always happen when the conditions are met?
    and is the solution you mention (e.g. removing all units from training and retraining, and resetting the seed) reliable?

    Also can you explain the 'resetting the seed' concept in a bit more detail, I just want to ensure I understand it if its necessary to resolve the problem.
    Didz
    Fortis balore et armis

  12. #12
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Leading the formation !
    Posts
    7,918

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr
    I quit playing a long time ago and was wondering if 1.2 was actually good enough...
    No.
    A Gamecenter with a dedicated Total War fanbase!
    Check out our Facebook!
    Email: shahed@outpost.be


  13. #13
    Member Member crpcarrot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    368

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    well depends on whats fustrating you

    if u play VH n strat map and go all out to get the 50 provinces within 10 turns and u find a diplomacy silly you wont find any improvements.

    battles are better shuild units can stand and take the charge while the other units work around them for tactical advantage. 2h kill quick but die too quickly for higher end 2 handers. i enjoy the game very muchbut thats subjective
    "Forgiveness is between them and god, my job is to arrange the meeting"

  14. #14
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz
    OMG! I think I had/have that bug in my Moorish Campaign but didn't realise it.

    In Marrakesh I built a Hashashim's Guild and trained 4 groups of Hashashim there. The first group was trained and sent to join the army at Tunis. The other three were not completed until after the Guild had been upgraded and for some reason seemed to need retraining every turn so they never left the city.

    I must have paid for their retraining four or five times before they finally stopped demanding it.

    So, how consistent is this bug?
    Does it always happen when the conditions are met?
    and is the solution you mention (e.g. removing all units from training and retraining, and resetting the seed) reliable?

    Also can you explain the 'resetting the seed' concept in a bit more detail, I just want to ensure I understand it if its necessary to resolve the problem.
    The conditions I posted are as far as I know the only triggers for this bug. The fact that some randomness is involved doesn't make life easier. Basically if you ever retrain a unit and notice it didn't get the exp bonus it should and it is retrainable again, you should finish your turn up to the point you'd press the end turn button but instead save the game, load it, empty/refill all training queues (ALL), go any action that reseeds (using an assassin, using a spy, using a diplomat/princess and actually get a treaty, using a princess to charm, autoresolve battle, normally fought battle, denouncing a heretic) and then end your turn. Normally it will be fixed then, but given the fact that you might be building a building that gives a local experience bonus for units trained, you may have to repeat this every single turn to ensure you won't have to mindlessly retrain. Its safe to do it even when you currently don't have the problem to prevent it for at least a turn.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  15. #15
    blaaaaaaaaaarg! Senior Member Lusted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,773

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Or the easiest way to get round the bug is just to do all your actions for the turn, then add the units to retraining and it works fine.

  16. #16
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Well except if you finished a local experience granting building that very turn. Then you got a chance of getting that bug.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  17. #17

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    If you finish a local building that turn, does it affect just the local settlement or everything?

  18. #18
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Afaik everything. The building thing is more or less random though and it doesn't happen each time you finish such a building.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member Barkhorn1x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Miami, FL, USA
    Posts
    1,056

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusted
    Or the easiest way to get round the bug is just to do all your actions for the turn, then add the units to retraining and it works fine.
    This is good advice as you really cannot combat the randomness completely so you must do what you can to trigger "resets" as often as possible.

    This one needs to be fixed CA.
    "Après moi le déluge"

  20. #20
    Handler of candles Member Xehh II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Super Magical Greatness Land
    Posts
    1,367

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    This might not have anything to do with this but I saw something about the 2 handed units attack animation being too slow, why do you say this? I think that it's good, I mean they do have to swing a big weapon around take billmen for example, I think it would be a slow weapon to use so it makes sense that the opponent would have time to block/counterattack.
    A ha ha! Rainbows and unicorns! Rainbows and unicorns!

  21. #21
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Groningen
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    @FactionHeir

    Actually the reloading isn't the cause but saving at the end of a turn (not auto-save). If you ad an unit to the training queue and right click on its card you will see the XP upgrades are there. If you save the game next and then look again the upgrade is gone. All buildings that give an experience upgrade suffer from this bug: horse-breeder, sword-smith, woodsmen, tourney field
    Tosa Inu

  22. #22
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    I can save at the end of my turn just fine after fixing my queues via the method I proposed. Next turn I get my properly trained units.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  23. #23
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Groningen
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Well. If I save at the end of a turn with full training queues (three units) and hit end turn, all I have next turn is green units. If I save first, then train them and hit end turn I get experienced units. I posted a English save game in Sinans thread. If I want triple gold Hospitaller knight in Pamplona(HQ) or Sophia (masters) I have to use my method. Same with archers everywhere.
    Tosa Inu

  24. #24
    Member Member johnmcd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    370

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    I agree MTW2 is too sloppy and will cost good will - it feels like the budget was spent on graphics, which when you're courting a strategy fan base is a shocking understanding of priorities.

  25. #25
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Bedfordshire UK
    Posts
    2,368

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Thats true.

    I've just been playing the demo of Railroads and came to exactly the same conclusion. I loved Railroad Tycoon, but Railroads is all graphic's and no gameplay.
    Didz
    Fortis balore et armis

  26. #26

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    1.2 is alright. Seems to have done mostly what community wanted (aside from the MP guys).

  27. #27

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    I dont have 1.2 yet, but from discussions here i understand that dis. feudal knights is the supreme infantry unit, besting later knights, two handers and pike alike.

    is this true?

  28. #28
    Village special needs person Member Kobal2fr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Yes and no. They're not better in a fight than later knights, but then later knights are usually much more expensive for a marginal upgrade, so you get more bang for your feudal buck so to speak.

    As for 2 handers and pikes, well, they don't have the same role as knights on the battlefield, so saying "DFKs beat them" is a bit unfair.

    2-handers kill *way* more guys on the charge than footknights do, but they don't last as long in a protracted fight, making 2 handers better at flanking, and knights better at holding the line or taking/defending walls.

    And pikes... well, pikes are a bit whacky, they insist on closing to sword range instead of pushing everybody back soooo .
    Anything wrong ? Blame it on me. I'm the French.

  29. #29
    Estratega de sillón Member a_ver_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    144

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    It's great to see that now you cannot build large armies of high tech units, it seems that the number of them available in the recruit queue are tunned down.
    uh ?

  30. #30
    blaaaaaaaaaarg! Senior Member Lusted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,773

    Default Re: So, is 1.2 actually good enough?

    Anyone else noticed that Inqusitors can no longer target faction leaders, heirs or people on crusades in 1.2.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO