Ron Paul needs to Wake up!--Stop Dreaming!

[Lemur]

I rather like Ron Paul. Unfortunately, he's a committed isolationist.

[Don Corleone]

I have a problem with a man that can accept, even approve, of the murder of 3000 of his fellow citizens. Don't have much use for people of this ilk.

Regardless of whether you approve of our foreign policy, 9/11 is not justifiable. Two wrongs do not make a right.

What's more, how well would such a man protect America? Every two-bit terrorist with an axe to grind would descend on us and launch a terror campaign. His answer? Well, we deserve it. The anger will pass, after a while...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I agree with 90% of what he has to say.

His answer? Well, we deserve it. The anger will pass, after a while...

I get really tired of people accussing him of saying that. He said if we were not over there getting involved in their buissness we wouildnt be in this mess. I dont see how anyone can deny this.

I also never saw him say we deserved it. Thats whats called spin .

[TB666]

Well as a swede, I like this guy.
His ideas sounds good enough for me. And his actions are consistant with his views and that's a very good thing.
However, he won't win.
People with that kinda radical idea don't seem to stand a chance in USA.
Fear of change maybe ??

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well as a swede, I like this guy.
His ideas sounds good enough for me. And his actions are consistant with his views and that's a very good thing.
However, he won't win.
People with that kinda radical idea don't seem to stand a chance in USA.
Fear of change maybe ??

You know he'd basically get rid of welfare (if he could), cut gov't services and the like to the marrow of the bone? I'd love it, but I thought you Swedes enjoyed the welfare state.

I agree with him on most topics - but not some of the most important topics. I'd love if he could move the national debate, but I don't want to see him as Commander in Chief.

One of the biggest problems with Libertarians is their foreign policy ideas.

Crazed Rabbit

[Gawain of Orkeny]

One of the biggest problems with Libertarians is their foreign policy ideas.

Yeah minding our own business is a bad idea

As Ive its too late now the cats out of the bag as they say. Thats our real problem How do we fix the mess weve gotten ourselves into. Ut oh Im blaming us

[Zaknafien]

Whats wrong with isolationalism? America was FOUNDED on it. Ron Paul wants to bring our troops home to protect OUR country, not meddle in the lives of people around the world. There is no excuse today for American military bases around the world, except to maintain the empire.

[Crazed Rabbit]

We are minding our business when defending ourselves, though.

I don't see isolation as good for America. Taking care which conflicts we get involved in is different, though.

CR

[TB666]

You know he'd basically get rid of welfare (if he could), cut gov't services and the like to the marrow of the bone? I'd love it, but I thought you Swedes enjoyed the welfare state.

We do and I love the welfare state however the american culture seems to be more different hence welfare doesn't seem to work for you guys.

[Zaknafien]

Ron Paul press conference on Rudy Guiliani and foreign policy yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAt6Pf7jZjA

[Lemur]

I have a problem with a man that can accept, even approve, of the murder of 3000 of his fellow citizens. Don't have much use for people of this ilk.

Regardless of whether you approve of our foreign policy, 9/11 is not justifiable.

I was not aware that RP had ever said anything of the sort. Linky, please.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I was not aware that RP had ever said anything of the sort. Linky, please.

My point exactly. I thought Rudy was wrong in the way he critiized him and you all know Im a neo-con warmonger

Its rare I and the Lemur agree on such matters. Whats the world coming to?

[drone]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_paul

In a May 15, 2007, GOP debate in South Carolina, Paul commented that America's history of interventionism in the Middle East has led to an unpopular view of the U.S. in Middle Eastern countries. Agreeing with what has previously been asserted by the 9/11 Commission Report and the Central Intelligence Agency's specialists on al Qaeda, Paul stated that the CIA removal of an elected Iranian leader (the CIA's encouragement of a military coup in 1953 against the democratically elected leader of Iran Mohammed Mosaddeq in Operation Ajax) and the bombing of Iraq in the 1990s, culminating in the ongoing Iraq war, has led to increasing anti-American sentiment in the Middle East. Then he said:

They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East [for years]. I think [Ronald] Reagan was right. We don't understand the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics. Right now, we're building an embassy in Iraq that is bigger than the Vatican. We're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting.

After Paul had completed his answer, Rudy Giuliani interrupted the moderator and interjected that he thought Paul was implying that America had invited the September 11, 2001, attacks; he said:

That's really an extraordinary statement. That's an extraordinary statement, as someone who lived through the attack of September 11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq. I don't think I've heard that before, and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11.

Paul defended his previous statement, which did not mention 9/11 specifically, but did say "they attack us" and further explained:

I believe the CIA is correct when it warns us about blowback. We overthrew the Iranian government in 1953 and their taking the hostages was the reaction. This dynamic persists and we ignore it at our risk. They’re not attacking us because we’re rich and free, they’re attacking us because we’re over there.

I don't believe he said we deserved it, just that we should have expected it, after all the meddling.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Heaven forbid a man dare speak the truth. I think he was courageous for saying that. Now if people only paid attention to what he really said rather than Rudy and the press's spin on it.

Im afraid when it comes right down to it my libertarian roots are still solid :)

The man makes more sense than all the others put together. Unfortunatly no ones listening.

[Don Corleone]

Heaven forbid a man dare speak the truth. I think he was courageous for saying that. Now if people only paid attention to what he really said rather than Rudy and the press's spin on it.

Im afraid when it comes right down to it my libertarian roots are still solid :)

The man makes more sense than all the others put together. Unfortunatly no ones listening.

Wow, Gawain, I'm amazed to hear this coming from you of all people. I seem to remember a debate you and I got into with a bunch of people whereby you and I argued that at the end of the day, Islamic fundamentalists, such as Al-Queda, Hizbollah, the Islamic Brotherhood etcetera were really fighting a war of conquest, and they were seeking to 1) reestablish the Caliphate and 2) fulfill the goal of the original Caliphate of one world Caliphate, with Sh'aria law universal.

I'm surprised by your dramatic shift of opinion to the idea that in fact we're responsible for their actions by having a non-isolationist foreign policy. When exactly did you have this change of heart?