KotR Out of character thread VI

[FactionHeir]

What happens with the crusade is decided after the outcome of econ's battle.
I think I intend to have them assault the force besieging Damascus in a night attack however. I could send them Elberhard with a few mailed knights as reinforcement, but he wouldn't be able to join the crusade as there are not enough units left in Aleppo to do so unless I were to split off troops from Leopold's army which I don't intend to do (not good roleplaying to split the troops just to create a new crusading army of one man)

If they win the battle, I'll be using the two nearby spies to open the gates so they can take Damascus this year still.

[econ21]

Now econ...will you replay this if you lose? :)

Of course not, but don't get suspicious if you don't hear from me until tomorrow night. I've brought a lot of work home tonight and think this battle is not one to be rushed. Let's call it a period of mourning for Erhart von Mahren.

[FactionHeir]

Reminder: Please do not post openly battle tactics/exact results of this battle until after its fought. PMing each other is fine.

[AussieGiant]

Of course not, but don't get suspicious if you don't hear from me until tomorrow night. I've brought a lot of work home tonight and think this battle is not one to be rushed. Let's call it a period of mourning for Erhart von Mahren.

Ok Econ. It seems we will not have to worry about them being passive hey!

With all that said good luck with the Mongol's.

I'm looking forward to Kag's write up so I can post in the diet with all the details at my disposal.

I must say I fought that battle 3 times and the last two with some very good advise from FH and I always lost an avatar. Those mailed knights are great.

Maybe we should ban them from our own armies as a handicap?

[StoneCold]

FH, about Elberhard, I am not concerned about the reinforcement. More about the avatar being the only one in the holy land not being a ex-crusader. Weird ICly, but not unheard of I think. We still cannot get the stupid pope to agree on an alliance?

[FactionHeir]

As in my C&G report, the pope even refused 10k florins and maps for alliance

[TinCow]

TC: If its legal, can you add Knight to the titles of Ehrhart in the Mausoleum?

Done. Added his other titles too.

[StoneCold]

Probably because the Byzantines, we have help time twice in battles? When they accepted your request, you just help them defeated the Hungarian siege, right? Does it work like that?

I think you mean we are offering access to the pope and not asking of access to their land right?

[FactionHeir]

We have to be allied before we can discuss access with the pope (I did edit my post)
Alliance and mil access both consider your global reputation. Ours is Dubious at the moment, which is quite bad, so alliances and access are difficult and expensive to get.

Good work TC.

[econ21]

If we take Damascus and get perfect relations, I wonder if the Pope would accept an alliance and later military access? For in character reasons, we really need that military access for our self-appointed role as defenders of Jerusalem - although I guess we could role-play the Pope being difficult (I seem to recall several "neutrals" in the World Wars being difficult with the allies when faced with a German threat).

[FactionHeir]

Our relations were on outstanding with the pope for the past few turns and he never accepted, even a generous offer. If we had more than 20k florins at the start of a turn, I wouldn't mind upping above 10k and tribute, but our massive military in outremer that I trained in anticipation of the mongol invasion is costing loads in addition to modernizing exisiting forces to imperial knights. I guess after the end of the crusade, sacking damascus and killing the mongols, we should have a lot of florins to spare. Likely in a turn or two if all goes well.

[edit]
We'll be able to train Forlorn Hope in two turns or so. Its time to start considering whether to up it to 2hp or not and whether to do any other changes (like enabling DGK and general rebalancing) I suppose.

[Kagemusha]

The battle report is up.

[Ituralde]

Too bad gibsonsg! Just as the House of Austria got a merry band, one is taken from us. Seems like someone didn't want you to leave your merchant days behind.

That's one of the reasons though why I don't like to fight with multiple Bodyguards in one army. When you're forced to use them as cavalry it gets hard to keep track of the generals.
This ties in directly with the situation around Damascus. I'm gonna post my thoughts IC in the Crusader Council right away. Wouldn't want to waste young avatars.

[StoneCold]

Btw, I read the battle report. It doesn't seems to indicate the death of the avatar in the screen shot. Kag, was there an indication of death of a general during battle? I always thought if a general died his BG will be grey out or is that just for the commanding general? Just a game mechanics question as I do not have the game, and RTW has been uninstalled.

[FactionHeir]

Greying out occurs in RTW but not M2TW. There is an indication, as in either the "A Noble Death" message or a cutscene, depending on who is affected and some randomness in the game.

[StoneCold]

Thanks.

Looks like Elberhard could get his crusader title with the rest of the avatars splitting from Leopold's army. Did the Mongols captured any other cities or did they make a beeline for Damascus?

[Ituralde]

Just a comment to the OOC part of your post FH.

I always thought that Army composition doesn't apply to Crusader Armies. Could be wrong though. If I am, I might still act against it. The Diet can impeach me for it if the wish.

[FactionHeir]

The latter. They are attacking Damascus and heading for Jerusalem

Ituralde: Crusading armies are only exempt on the limit of GBs but not knights and other things. The first crusade was special as we had an edict removing the limits. I don't know if it would really be counting as acting against it, as there isn't an IC rule to prevent other compositions - its an OOC rule.

[Ituralde]

Ah well, looks like we'll have to see then.

Don't plan on making a huge uberstack of cavalry anyway.

[AussieGiant]

Firstly Kag,

Amazing write up. That was certainly intense to say the least.

Second, I don't think we should do any modification to any files or anything at this stage. Army composition must be maintain in my view in order to make this Mongol invasion "real".

We've lost and avatar, and I think it's for the best that there is some type of realistic setting for our role playing. There are more than enough avatar's in reserve so people are not left out (something I'm keenly aware of), but uber game playing is something I strongly advise against as there is no "story".

There plenty of battling to come and it's only right that we should feel the pain and lose of fighting for out land.

So...god, I'm knighted and at a bitter cost IC.

[FactionHeir]

Don't think an über-stack of cav would beat Mongols.
From SP experience, you need missile cav or long range missiles and a solid infantry line. Best if you have a catapult or trebuchet with you too.
The way to kill mongols is to have them attack you on the field by forcing their hand using missiles. Charging them only gets your troops exhausted and shot down.

I think the most fun experience I had with Mongols was when I was playing the Moors. Main stack had a good general, 10 peasant crossbows (long range), 4 dmt christian guards, 2 gran jinetes, 2 desert cav, 1 christian guard. Reinforcements were a general with 6 akinjis, 4 peasant crossbows, 2 christian guard and loads of arab cavalry and alan mercs. As attacker I stood on a hill and shot them to pieces while they didn't dare charging my army. Each time a crossbow was depleted i'd withdraw it to get my reserve in.

[TinCow]

Just a comment to the OOC part of your post FH.

I always thought that Army composition doesn't apply to Crusader Armies. Could be wrong though. If I am, I might still act against it. The Diet can impeach me for it if the wish.

Technically, the abolishment of army limits was only done for the first Crusade and the legislation authorizing it is long gone. If you're going to do a night attack against a single stack, you'll have to deal with a normal army setup. However, if you're actually suggesting a kamikaze attack on all of them without a night attack to split them, I would personally be willing to look the other way. That's ballsy enough (and certain enough to get you killed) that you're entitled to everything you can get your hands on.

[AussieGiant]

Don't think an über-stack of cav would beat Mongols.
From SP experience, you need missile cav or long range missiles and a solid infantry line. Best if you have a catapult or trebuchet with you too.
The way to kill mongols is to have them attack you on the field by forcing their hand using missiles. Charging them only gets your troops exhausted and shot down.

I think the most fun experience I had with Mongols was when I was playing the Moors. Main stack had a good general, 10 peasant crossbows (long range), 4 dmt christian guards, 2 gran jinetes, 2 desert cav, 1 christian guard. Reinforcements were a general with 6 akinjis, 4 peasant crossbows, 2 christian guard and loads of arab cavalry and alan mercs. As attacker I stood on a hill and shot them to pieces while they didn't dare charging my army. Each time a crossbow was depleted i'd withdraw it to get my reserve in.

Something to keep in mind FH as I'm sure I will be heading east in my old age.

[FactionHeir]

Well I suppose you'll get to fight the Timurids, but the tactics against them are different, as they got long range artillery. For Timurids I'd chose an army with halberds, spears, at least 3 ballistae, 3 or so missile regiments and rest heavy cavalry. Use fire and shoot down their elephants first to make them go amok and then have them come to you while you tell your arty to stop and watch their army get massacred by their own elephants.

Still, both of those enemies you can't use cav heavy armies against. Cav heavy works well against normal factions only.

[AussieGiant]

Even better advise.

So a question. Now that I'm knighted due to Kag's frontal assault which has left me not wanting to see blood for awhile, where do I post orders for the AHA and further movement?

[FactionHeir]

You don't have to really. If you really want to post something, you can do that in the C&G reports topic or via PM. Anything is up to my disgression though and currently I tend towards having the AHA or at least some general with a capable army build watchtowers and forts across Zagreb region after its retaken and have them hunt down the invasion force that attacked Zagreb if its still within Imperial territory. Durazzo will get a decent garrison and I'll have Zagreb supply a few troops down there. Best if you could get one of the other Austrians knighted in the meantime so they can take over garrison duties at Durazzo while Jonas goes back to Franconia.

[TinCow]

Anything is up to my disgression though and currently I tend towards having the AHA or at least some general with a capable army build watchtowers and forts across Zagreb region after its retaken and have them hunt down the invasion force that attacked Zagreb if its still within Imperial territory.

Technically you still have to comply with Ituralde's orders for the AHA, since they were given in a timely manner and are valid.

Orders for the Austrian Household Army:

The Austrian Household Army will be led by Jonas von Mahren.
As soon as a Austrian noble, who is not on Crusade, gets knighted he will take over command of the Army.

Jonas von Mahren will have full control over the movements of the Army. I have contacted him, that he should bring the siege of Thessalonica to an end, one way or another and return to the Austrian homeland. He should pick up the younger Austrian nobles on his way north and defeat the Hungarians loitering in our territory.

You've done pretty much everything indicated there except "defeat the Hungarians loitering in our territory." However, since Arnold is now Steward, he can legally give you new orders which remove that as a goal. So my legal ruling on the matter (if it counts for anything) is that you have to use the AHA against any Hungarians in Austrian territory, unless Arnold gives new orders. If he gives new orders, it is (like you said) at your discretion (within the limits imposed on you for using Household Armies - such as you can't take them out of the House's territory.).

[Stuperman]

What's up with the forlorn Hope? I know of the 2handed bug, but isn't that fixed?

And as for the big battles, I hope some are in Bavaria land, as commander of the BHA for nearly 50 years (I think) I've fought 3. and am now contridicting myself, as I earlier said I was hesitant to bring Gerhard into battle. Oh well, I'll just have to wait and see.

[AussieGiant]

TC,

I'll send you the usual fee

FH,

Most of it's just roleplaying as its inline with what Ituralde said before.

I don't really want to keep Durazzo. It makes this eastern border a shocker.

[TinCow]

With Durazzo as an offer, peace with Venice might actually be possible.