Lose horses, and your morale!

[Fußball]

Excuse me if this has already been listed. I was playing a simple game yesterday and noticed something quite peculiar. Imperial Knights have the trait good morale listed in their traits on their unit card, as does any knight unit for obvious reasonings. Yet Dismounted Imperial Knights do not have this trait listed in the traits on their unit card. Is this simply a mistake and the trait does not show up on the card yet they receive the bonus or is this simply another stroke of genius CA logic?

Tschüß!
Erich

[FactionHeir]

Whether this attribute displays is subject to the numerical value for morale in the EDU.
Most knights have 9. Dismounted Imperials have 5 for some reason or another.

[edit]
As to why that is so, I'm not sure, but if you look at the other primary mace wiedling dismounted knight, it also has 5. Admittedly Dismounted Mercenary German Knights are not implemented for anything but slave and I have never seem them in a rebel stack.

[MichelRensen]

The only logic reason I can think up for this is the following:

When you're on a horse, you're looking down on your adversaries. You are probably on an armoured horse, which is a bit like a tank, or maybe an armoured jeep. You have a long spear that can impale people. You can charge at your opponents and deal crushing blows that way.

As opposed to:

When you're on foot, you're much closer to the ground. You feel small, vulnerable, ESPECIALLY against all those other knights who are on horses! All you have is a sword, and a shield if you're lucky. Your armour may protect you from some blows, but it is also heavy, and you don't have a horse to carry it around for you. A charge tires you and you find yourself in the middle of the action without any way to get out.

Wouldn't you run?

Anyway, that's MY logic.

[FactionHeir]

Wouldn't explain why its only those two dismounted knight units suffering from it, unless they hate using their maces.

[MichelRensen]

Maybe they just like the feel of a horse under them and they feel naked without it? Their maces just don't give the comforts a horse's back can give...

Probably it hasn't really got a reason though... If they are the only knights who suffer from a drop in morale once you take their horses I assume it's just, well... a mistake.

[Fußball]

It is either another stroke of illogical CA logic and not added or it was mistakingly left out for dismounted Imperial/German knights. It seems as if I should simply unpack and begin editing the files and modding M2 because so many of these blunders are making the game nigh unplayable.

Tschüß!
Erich

[Lusted]

Well the low morale for DIK seems to be intentional or at least i think it is. DIK seem to have lower stats than DCK/AS/NS for a reason, probably to show the lack of really high quality late era infantry for HRE.

[Shahed]

Is this simply a mistake and the trait does not show up on the card yet they receive the bonus or is this simply another stroke of genius CA logic?

Tschüß!
Erich

It is probably meant to be like that. I don't think there's any logical reason for it.

[econ21]

I don't think it is an error. DIK also have a low defence skill to go with their low morale. (Unless maces are supposed to be less good for defence than swords.)

[Kobal2fr]

I don't think it is an error. DIK also have a low defence skill to go with their low morale. (Unless maces are supposed to be less good for defence than swords.)

That's because all sword units get a +3 "parry" bonus to defense. This was discussed in another thread (can't remember which) but the fact is that every sword unit has 3 more points in defense than similar units with different weaps.

[econ21]

That's because all sword units get a +3 "parry" bonus to defense. This was discussed in another thread (can't remember which) but the fact is that every sword unit has 3 more points in defense than similar units with different weaps.

I thought something like that might be going on, but it may not be the whole story. DFK are defence skill 8 - DIK are defence skill 3. DIKs are being hit by 2 extra points above and beyond the 3 attributable to differences in weapon and have a morale nerf of 4 points.

In older TW games, quality adjustments were often done at the rate of 1 point of attack and 2 points of morale, so I reckon DIKs are supposed to be a couple of grades of quality below DFK.

Remember that excel file CA released for MTW showing how they derived the unit stats from assumptions about weapon values, quality, armour etc? I am pretty sure they still get their stats in such a systematic way, it's just they stopped releasing such a thing after MTW to protect their commercial interests (stop rival companies cloning their system).

[Fußball]

All in all I think DIK/DGK should have the added morale. It would not unbalance them much and would make them much more worth using than the aging DFK. And it only makes sense that they are knights and should have the good morale trait. I personally like using a mix of both since DFK is one of the only German sword units not counting zweihänder. But with stats DFK are overall better in the vanilla game.

Tschüß!
Erich

[Kobal2fr]

I thought something like that might be going on, but it may not be the whole story. DFK are defence skill 8 - DIK are defence skill 3. DIKs are being hit by 2 extra points above and beyond the 3 attributable to differences in weapon and have a morale nerf of 4 points.

In older TW games, quality adjustments were often done at the rate of 1 point of attack and 2 points of morale, so I reckon DIKs are supposed to be a couple of grades of quality below DFK.

Remember that excel file CA released for MTW showing how they derived the unit stats from assumptions about weapon values, quality, armour etc? I am pretty sure they still get their stats in such a systematic way, it's just they stopped releasing such a thing after MTW to protect their commercial interests (stop rival companies cloning their system).

I'm sure there's a point to it, there's no question about that - the +3 sword def doesn't explain the whole thing.

Still, that point would have been driven home best by... oh, I don't know, giving the HRE DIKs INSTEAD of DFKs ? Then it would have made sense : they'd have a flavorfull counter to the rest of the world's reliance on swords in their very own brand of AP paingivers. Only they don't, and DIKs end up being, well, useless, because no one's going to train those when they can build better, blander DFKs.

Actually, that's an all-encompassing problem : all cath factions get DFKs. Some cath factions have their own brand of dismounted knights based on their own cultural variation on the Feudal Knight concept. Why both ?