Belgian Election thread !

[doc_bean]

Okay, election time again in the smallest and most confusing federal country in the world !
I'll give a brief explanation on the Flemish parties, since I don't know that much about the Walloons, anyone from that side of the country is invited to add some details.

The big players :

-The 'liberals' : open-VLD

leanings:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Social liberals, economic libertarians, as far as that applies to our country. They don't want to get rid of health care, they want to keep education affordable, but they're the biggest proponents of tax cuts. they're also the ones that legalised gay marriage and euthanasia, together with the socialists.

position:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The main party of the last two governments, used up most of their political credit, probably won't be the biggest party anymore. gave recently adopted some very "left" ideas on climate and immigration.

On the other side of the language border: MR

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The big second party over there, they might possibly decrown the socialists this time.

-The socialists : SP A

-leanings

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Socialists, of course. Since we're such a socialistic country already even they propose tax cuts and a *realistic* policy. Their most controversial point seems to be about nuclear energy (they want out).

-position:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Have been in the government for the last 18 years, the traditional coalition partner, have a loyal voter base and have a very good chance of keeping their second place.

On the other side of the language border: PS

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They 've been the biggest party there since the stone age, much of Wallony's downfall is attributed to them. We really don't like them this side of the border. If they can keep most of their electorate they're probably in the government, as has always been the case.

-The Catholics: CD&V


-leanings

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Socially conservative, for the most part. Economically pretty neutral, support tax cuts now. Their main program point seems to be "we'll do the same but better". Which seems a popular enough thought.

-position:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The most likely winner next sunday. They are allied with a small party with separatists leanings which will weaken their position in negotiating a govenrment with the Walloons.

On the other side of the language border: CDH

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Small party really, doesn't matter.

-The Nazi's: Vlaams belang


-leanings

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Opportunists, fascists, populists, separatists, racists and generally just a bunch of scumbags. Officially the biggest party last election but didn't get to participate in the government since no one wanted to govern with them.

-position:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They have their very loyal voting base, but I feel the general public has gotten tired of them, I think (and hope) they'll lose a few percent compared to last time.

- The small player that might actually matter:

-The Green party: Groen!

-leanings

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Environmental extremists and idealists. Most of the party members are vegetarians, most drive hybrid cars, or don't drive at all, several never take an airplane because of the pollution it causes.

-position:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lost really bad last time, will make a small come back, possibly enough for them to be considered for a coalition, although most of us fear that scenario

On the other side of the language border: Ecolo

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bigger party than their Flemish equivalent I think, don't know too much about them.

-My prognosis:

Catholics will become biggest party, then the Nazi's, then Socialists, then Liberals.

-Most likely coalition

Catholics with socialists, both sides of the border.

-What I want to see as a coalition

Catholics and liberals, at least this side of the border, I don't really care who leads the coalition.

-Worst case scenario

Socialists becoming the major govenrment party, picking up green in the coalition *shudder*.

-What i'm going to vote

Deduce that for yourself, it's pretty obvious.

[Louis VI the Fat]

-What i'm going to vote

Deduce that for yourself

No need for the secrecy. There's no shame in being a socialist, seccesionist, environmentalistic Catholic.

Now to wait for the other Belgians to come forth! Remember, we all know which party a Fleming votes when he refuses to comment on his preference...

since I don't know that much about the Walloons, anyone from that side of the country is invited to add some details.

We don't have any around, do we? So I'll speak for my oppressed brethren instead.

Following your scheme, but skipping the spoiler tags that are so exemplary of the Belgian tendency for secrecy and cover-ups concerning all things political:

-The 'liberals' : open-VLD
On the other side of the language border: MR
The big second party over there, they might possibly decrown the socialists this time.
Liberal is centre-right in Belgium. But no, they won't defeat the socialists. Not in a million years.


-The socialists : SP A
On the other side of the language border: PS
They 've been the biggest party there since the stone age, much of Wallony's downfall is attributed to them. We really don't like them this side of the border.
We really don't like them this side of the border either.


-The Catholics: CD&V
On the other side of the language border: cdH
Small party really, doesn't matter.
They've been the biggest movement in Flanders since the stone age. Much of Belgiums problems is attributed to them. We really don't like them this side of the linguistic border.
Accordingly, the Christian Democrats are called the Humanist Democrats in the French speaking part.


-The Nazi's: Vlaams belang

Nazism is a Teutonic curse. There is no such thing in Wallonia.
Okay, well there is the Front National Belge, run by convicted criminal Féret. He'll get his usual few percent.


The Green party: Groen!
On the other side of the language border: Ecolo
Bigger party than their Flemish equivalent I think, don't know too much about them.
History is with them. Unfortunately, reason is not.

My prediction for Wallonia:
Socialist PS, Liberal MR, Humanist cdH, Greens, FN.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Belgian political system is so maddeningly confusing that no Belgian knows exactly who, what for, or even why they are voting this time. Hence, voting has been made compulsory. All the average Belgian is allowed to know at this stage is that they must get up and vote something this sunday, at the risk of a hefty fine.

This has led to important political experimentations like the one below, for which in the interest of international political intercourse I feel obliged to risk a warning point:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A Belgian senate hopeful is offering voters something a bit more tempting than a one per cent cut in VAT and better rubbish collections - 40,000 free blow jobs to anyone who signs up at her campaign website.





Tania Derveaux represents NEE, an "impartial protest movement running for senate in the Belgian elections of June 10 2007", which "offers voters in Belgium the option to vote 'NEE' if they find that none of the parties deserve their vote".

According to Ms Derveaux, she originally pledged to create 400,000 jobs as a "response to incredible claims that were made by other parties in Belgium". This prompted wags to demand 400,000 blowjobs, which Derveaux has wisely reduced to 40k.

Still, by her reckoning she'll still have to suck like a good 'un for 500 days, servicing 80 hardened NEE supporters a day. We'll save you the trouble: if she puts in a seven-hour shift at the coalface, that means one punter every five-and-a-half minutes - without the benefit of a tea break.

Oh yes, married or shy people can elect to receive their bj in Second Life, so there's little excuse not to get your rocks off.

Edit: click here if you want her to give you a *******.
Free videos too!

[drone]

That's like voting Gah!, but with benefits!

[doc_bean]

Ah yes, we do have the best protest parties

About Wallony and the PS: I hope they'll lose in a few decades at least. Something i've noticed with 'our' system is that parties always reinvent themselves after a loss, which tends to mean new people with fresh ideas who are not totally jaded (and corrupt) yet. They'll still win this time though, since they have the unquestionable support of the poorest region of the country (and nearly of Europe, if what we're led to believe is true).

The PS represents everything that's wrong with socialism. keep the poor down so they keep voting for you

About the Catholics: I believe they were much like the PS now is, an arrogant organization sure of its power, and thus rife with corruption.
It's truly amazing imo how much has changed for our country in the last decade, when they weren't in control anymore, unfortunately, the liberals don't receive too much credit for what they've achieved. Yet our economy seems to be booming, we survived the recession mid-decade with barely a scratch, we've still got our great healthcare system, we have gay marriage and euthanasia now, and better yet, it hasn't destroyed society as some right winger would assume, we've semi-legalized pot (not fully legalizing it was a big mistake though), confidence in the justice system has increased from a mere 18% to nearly 50% (though if it's based on fact is another issue), taxes have generally gone down, or are allocated differently, youth unemployement this year is down 40% compared to last year (according to the figures recently released) and for the first time the same is true for our immigrants' children.
Of course, people focus on the negative, and true their are some issues, but I don't feel they weigh up to what has happened.
The Catholics really know what they are doing now, they barely have a program, they just claim to make better 'ministers' than the current generation of liberals. They're also allied to some idiotic separatist movement who believes we'll all be making much more money if we dump wallony. They might be right, but so effing what ? Are we going to dump all provinces that don't make enough cash to stay in our glorious union ? L'unité fait la force *is* still our national motto. Now, they're not extreme separatists, I expect them to stay reasonable in the coming negotiations, but I still the catholics should have left them to themselves. It would have only cost them a few West Flemish votes (I love a lot of things about the West Flemish, but let's just say they tend to be very focused on their own little village/city/province).

about Vlaams belang: they're allied with LePen in the EU parliament I believe

[Strike For The South]

Go Le Pen!

[doc_bean]

Go Le Pen!

[Strike For The South]

Fine I vote for the muscles from Brussles

[Husar]

Almost makes me wish I were belgian...no, not the pic that Strike posted...

[Fragony]

Ahhhhhh I love seeing lack of democraty in action, go Vlaams Belang

nazi's lol, that would make half of belgium nazi's. Decent rightwing party.

[doc_bean]

Ahhhhhh I love seeing lack of democraty in action, go Vlaams Belang

nazi's lol, that would make half of belgium nazi's. Decent rightwing party.

Most people here know your views about immigrants, so most of them will realise how right my description really is.

Of course, if it was just about immigration that would be one thing, you should hear them talk about splitting the country up and taking Brussels, that's talk about 'conquest' nad our 'hereditary right to the city', nevermind the people who live there now.

But this isn't really the place to debate Vlaams belang, I've done it before.

EDIT: I didn't mean to imply Fragony was a Nazi.
EDIT2: seriously, just ignore the first sentence...

[Fragony]

Most people here know your views about immigrants, so most of them will realise how right my description really is.

I think you would do well apoligising for that. Just a friendly suggestion.

[doc_bean]

I think you would do well apoligising for that. Just a friendly suggestion.

Calling you a nazi was not my intention.

Like I said, if it was just the immigration issue, they probably wouldn't deserve the label.

[Fragony]

That's not quite it Doc_Bean.

No, you called me a nazi and 'Opportunist, fascist, populist, separatists, racists and generally just a bunch of scumbags.'

edit, well minus seperatist, obviously.

[doc_bean]

That's not quite it Doc_Bean.

No, you called me a nazi and 'Opportunist, fascist, populist, separatists, racists and generally just a bunch of scumbags.'

edit, well minus seperatist, obviously.

Now opportunist and populist obviously refer to the way a politician or party behaves, so it can't apply to you.
Fascist, don't think that you are one, but they're still a fascist party though, only one with leadership issues at the moment

Racist, okay, I don't think you're technically a racist, you just mind immigrants don't you ? Especially muslims (I should have added islamophobes on that list). They however, are racists, their old party program involved taking away the nationality of anyone who couldn't prove at least one of their grandparents was born Flemish. They also proposed separate busses for immigrants (by which they mean anyone who doesn't belong to our 'race') and 'true Flemish'.

Generally a bunch of scumbags, again, refers to them, not necessarily to their voters.

See Fragony, as controversial as your views on Islam and immigration are here, they're worse. You'd probably vote for them, but in doing so support something that is far worse than you'd bargained for. Just like the germans didn't expect what would happen when they elected the Nazi's.
But really, i mostly refer to them as the nazi-party because they have proven links to nazi and neo-nazi organizations.

[Fragony]

Gah, learn to count to 10

[doc_bean]

EDIT: okay, and I'll admit I shouldn't have phrased it quite like I did.

[King Henry V]

What is the stance of Flemish people on independence? A friend of mine who's Flemish says that 80% of people are for independence.

[doc_bean]

What is the stance of Flemish people on independence? A friend of mine who's Flemish says that 80% of people are for independence.

Only a minority truly wants independence, most people just don't care too much.

The whole issue of independence is played out by politicians and laced with false promises and unrealistic scenarios. I've said it before, Belgians are very isolationistic, we tend to be focused on ourselves and our immediate environment and not all that aware of what happens 50 miles away.
So the politicians have sold us on the whole independence thing. It's not surprising that the biggest support for this is found in the part of the country furthest away from the language border (support for Vlaams belang is mostly due to immigration issues, they're a bad gauge for support of independence).

The reason most people want independence is simple: taxes. They believe we'll be better off. Sure they can whine about the language conflict and other things, but the real issue is simply: taxes. There is no desire to found the Glorious nation of Flanders, people just want to pay less taxes.

Of course, because gaining independence is a gradual process here, at least according to the politicians, what this really means is that we get more electable positions each year, which means we pay more to the politicians. We are a country of 10 or so million people and have four governments (Federal, Brussels, Flanders and Wallony), which we all have to pay. I'm not sure how the language regions are represented these days, but rest assured that we have at least 4 parliaments too. Yep, they all get payed. all this for a country you can cross by bike in a single day if you put some effort into it.

The independence thing is a scam, and the Flemish are falling for it by the millions.

[Conradus]

I've got the 'luck' of living in Belgium, but I don't have to vote yet, my birthday's some two weeks after the elections. Have to study for a maths exam though

For the most part I agree with Doc_bean, though my vote would go to the CD&V (Christians). I'm too young to have any memories of their 50+years reign and all the corruption but I've witnessed most of the blunders our current and the previous goverment made. Of course they had their strong points, but many of the great things in our country were already in place when the liberals came to power, or are due to international economy boosts.

It's about time though that PS got a little time as opposition to reflect their actions...

[Mikeus Caesar]

The thread title tricked my eyes.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The thread title tricked my eyes.

Come on, admit it: you thought it said 'Belgian Election Threat', didn't you?

[Rodion Romanovich]

The Belgian political system is so maddeningly confusing that no Belgian knows exactly who, what for, or even why they are voting this time. Hence, voting has been made compulsory. All the average Belgian is allowed to know at this stage is that they must get up and vote something this sunday, at the risk of a hefty fine.

This has led to important political experimentations like the one below, for which in the interest of international political intercourse I feel obliged to risk a warning point:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A Belgian senate hopeful is offering voters something a bit more tempting than a one per cent cut in VAT and better rubbish collections - 40,000 free blow jobs to anyone who signs up at her campaign website.





Tania Derveaux represents NEE, an "impartial protest movement running for senate in the Belgian elections of June 10 2007", which "offers voters in Belgium the option to vote 'NEE' if they find that none of the parties deserve their vote".

According to Ms Derveaux, she originally pledged to create 400,000 jobs as a "response to incredible claims that were made by other parties in Belgium". This prompted wags to demand 400,000 blowjobs, which Derveaux has wisely reduced to 40k.

Still, by her reckoning she'll still have to suck like a good 'un for 500 days, servicing 80 hardened NEE supporters a day. We'll save you the trouble: if she puts in a seven-hour shift at the coalface, that means one punter every five-and-a-half minutes - without the benefit of a tea break.

Oh yes, married or shy people can elect to receive their bj in Second Life, so there's little excuse not to get your rocks off.

Edit: click here if you want her to give you a *******.
Free videos too!

Wow that's got to be the hottest politician ever! Not really democratic to have a candidate like that, as the ehm distraction could make voters forget about the political aspect of the election.

[Moros]

I love nonsense threads...

Anyone knows if you can vote for Leterme's goat?

[Moros]

Of course, because gaining independence is a gradual process here, at least according to the politicians, what this really means is that we get more electable positions each year, which means we pay more to the politicians. We are a country of 10 or so million people and have four governments (Federal, Brussels, Flanders and Wallony), which we all have to pay. I'm not sure how the language regions are represented these days, but rest assured that we have at least 4 parliaments too. Yep, they all get payed. all this for a country you can cross by bike in a single day if you put some effort into it.

It's worse we have six. Sigh.
Flanders.
French community
German Community
Wallony
Brussels
Federal Government

You see nonesense. Belgium poltics= nonsense (most countries are I guess, but we really excel when it comes to this)

Also most indeed want to split because of fake reasons. The real reason, the media. The truth is what the media tells you to be the truth.

[doc_bean]

It's worse we have six. Sigh.
Flanders.
French community
German Community
Wallony
Brussels
Federal Government

You see nonesense. Belgium poltics= nonsense (most countries are I guess, but we really excel when it comes to this)

Also most indeed want to split because of fake reasons. The real reason, the media. The truth is what the media tells you to be the truth.

I wasn't sure how they treated the language communities these days. They don't have any real power anyway.

[Moros]

Ahhhhhh I love seeing lack of democraty in action, go Vlaams Belang

nazi's lol, that would make half of belgium nazi's. Decent rightwing party.

Sorry but , you apparantly don't the VB verry well. My freind.

Also anyone noticed how half of their candidated are over 3 quarter a century old?

[Moros]

I wasn't sure how they treated the language communities these days. They don't have any real power anyway.

Thou are completly wrong. They control education, a verry important thing. Also part of our social help is done by the communities. Also quite a few other stuff.

[Louis VI the Fat]

It's worse we have six. Sigh.
Flanders.
French community
German Community
Wallony
Brussels
Federal Government

Why, naturally. How else to rule the vast area of Belgium, 20% larger than Vermont, than through a triple federalised system? And you've got your provincial, local and European elections too. Please tell me voting is obligatory for all of them.

And then there's the Bruxelles-Hal-Vilvorde arrondissement problem, which, by verdict of the Belgian constitutional court, in fact renders the current election unconstitutional.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde (often abbreviated as BHV) is a contentious Belgian electoral arrondissement in the center of the country that encompasses both the officially bilingual Brussels-Capital Region, which coincides with the administrative arrondissement of Brussels-Capital, as well as the officially unilingual Dutch-speaking area around it, Halle-Vilvoorde, which in turn forms a separate administrative arrondissement. Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde is also a judicial arrondissement, unambiguously better known as the Brussels judicial Arrondissement after the location of its courts.

With the federal elections of 10 June 2007 looming, the problem of the electoral district of Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde reemerged. Because the federal government failed to comply with a ruling of the Court of Arbitration which declared the provincial electoral districts compared to the two remaining arrondisemental ones in the former province of Brabant unconstitutional, several mayor's in the Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde area have threatened to refuse to compile the lists of electors.

Professor and constitutional expert Paul Van Orshoven from the Katholieke Universiteit Leuven declared that the elections, to be held on June 10, are unconstitutional. According to Van Orshoven there are two problems:

As the previous election was held Sunday May 18, 2003, the final date to hold elections (four years from the previous) is Sunday, May 13, 2007

The Court of Arbitration gave the government the time to fix the B-H-V problem until the next elections should been sheduled, after that election results could be declared void.

Anyone knows if you can vote for Leterme's goat?

Yves 'les francophones ne sont pas en état intellectuel d'apprendre le néerlandais' Leterme? What about his goat?
Please tell me he was caught doing you-know-what with his goat!?

[doc_bean]

Thou are completly wrong. They control education, a verry important thing. Also part of our social help is done by the communities. Also quite a few other stuff.

Does that mean Brussels has it's own community govenment too ? Because education norms are different in Brussels, Wallony and landers, especially when it comes to languages.

*sigh* see, I don't even understand our system...

Why, naturally. How else to rule the vast area of Belgium, 20% larger than Vermont, than through a triple federalised system? And you've got your provincial, local and European elections too. Please tell me voting is obligatory for all of them.

Of course it is. Though they're normally spread out so we only have to go and vote once every two years.

And then there's the Bruxelles-Hal-Vilvorde arrondissement problem, which, by verdict of the Belgian constitutional court, in fact renders the current election unconstitutional.

It's become more of a non-issue these days, which hows how little backbone us Flemish really have, I guess. At least in france there would have been a nice riot.

Yves 'les francophones ne sont pas en état intellectuel d'apprendre le néerlandais' Leterme? What about his goat?
Please tell me he was caught doing you-know-what with his goat!?

Nope sorry. He is somewhat misquoted I believe, it was in a reaction to something and he started by saying "Apparently..." I believe it was about the situation in Henegouwen where on the french side of the language border there's a huge unemployment problem and on the Dutch side there's a shortage of workers. But I don't remember exactly.