What!? Exclude the felons from amnesty? Are you racist?!

[Don Corleone]

It just gets better and better. Last night, the Senate defeated the Coryn ammendment on a 51-46 vote. Senator Cornyn's ammendment said that those convicted of felonies while here as illegal immigrants would be inelligible for the Z-class visas. Apparently Sentors Graham, Hagel, Kyl, Specter, Martinez, McCain, Voinovich, Domenici and Craig agree with the White House and the Democrats that we need more rapists and muggers in this country, as they voted against the ammendment which would prevent them from being elligible for the program.

I guess since I don't want a few more home invasions, a few more kidnappers and a few more habitual drunk drivers, I must be a racist. At least that's what Senator Graham thinks.

Btw, I never thought I would say this, but my hat is off to Senators Feinstein and Boxer. They were the only two Democrats to have the chutzpah to defy Reid and vote in favor of the ammendment, granted they waited until after the nay-voters had the votes....

[Louis VI the Fat]

¿Por qué usted odia la libertad?

[Odin]

It just gets better and better. Last night, the Senate defeated the Coryn ammendment on a 51-46 vote. Senator Cornyn's ammendment said that those convicted of felonies while here as illegal immigrants would be inelligible for the Z-class visas. Apparently Sentors Graham, Hagel, Kyl, Specter, Martinez, McCain, Voinovich, Domenici and Craig agree with the White House and the Democrats that we need more rapists and muggers in this country, as they voted against the ammendment which would prevent them from being elligible for the program.

I guess since I don't want a few more home invasions, a few more kidnappers and a few more habitual drunk drivers, I must be a racist. At least that's what Senator Graham thinks.

Btw, I never thought I would say this, but my hat is off to Senators Feinstein and Boxer. They were the only two Democrats to have the chutzpah to defy Reid and vote in favor of the ammendment, granted they waited until after the nay-voters had the votes....

This whole legislation is heading down the drain Don. it started off as a piece of #@#@ and with every little tit for tat defeat of amendments we get closer to someone pressing down the lever and flushing it for good.

[Don Corleone]

This whole legislation is heading down the drain Don. it started off as a piece of #@#@ and with every little tit for tat defeat of amendments we get closer to someone pressing down the lever and flushing it for good.

You're kidding, right? Why do you think Feinstein and Boxer voted in favor of the Cornyn ammendment? You have the House & Senate leadership united behind it (the only thing the Democrats are holding out for is family-reunification, which this bill technically doesn't end). The White House has come out and declared war on any Republicans that dare challenge their stance on it. And you think it's just going to go away? You're way more optimistic than I am, my friend. Now, about that lovely beachfront property I've got for sale down in Boca Raton....

[drone]

This whole legislation is heading down the drain Don. it started off as a piece of #@#@ and with every little tit for tat defeat of amendments we get closer to someone pressing down the lever and flushing it for good.

You rang?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

WASHINGTON -- A fragile bipartisan compromise that would legalize millions of unlawful immigrants suffered a setback Thursday when it failed a test vote in the Senate, leaving its prospects uncertain.

Still, the measure _ a top priority for President Bush that's under attack from the right and left _ got a reprieve when Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he would give it more time before yanking the bill and moving on to other matters.

"We need to complete this marathon," Reid said.

His decision set the stage for yet another procedural vote later Thursday that will measure lawmakers' appetite for a so-called "grand bargain" between liberals and conservatives on immigration.

By a vote of 33-63, the Senate fell far short of the 60 votes that would have been needed to limit debate on the immigration measure and put it on a path to passage. Republicans _ even those who helped craft the measure and are expected to support it _ banded together to oppose that move, while a majority of Democrats backed it.

[Lemur]

Even if they exclude felons, I'm still in opposition. I don't much like the idea of a serf class being created and protected by law in this country. Look how well the "guest worker" system has worked for France, or Saudi for that matter. Bad, bad idea.

I guess I hate freedom.

[Odin]

You're kidding, right? Why do you think Feinstein and Boxer voted in favor of the Cornyn ammendment? You have the House & Senate leadership united behind it (the only thing the Democrats are holding out for is family-reunification, which this bill technically doesn't end). The White House has come out and declared war on any Republicans that dare challenge their stance on it. And you think it's just going to go away? You're way more optimistic than I am, my friend. Now, about that lovely beachfront property I've got for sale down in Boca Raton....

"WASHINGTON - A fragile bipartisan compromise that would legalize millions of unlawful immigrants suffered a setback Thursday when it failed a test vote in the Senate, leaving its prospects uncertain"

Its dieing slowly, Reid dosent have the votes he needs to push it through without debate, and the president dosent have any more capital to spend on republicans in the senate.

this bill will seems destined to be voted on based on individual priorities dooming the ambitions of the leaderships involved.

Yes i'm optomistic, because to be anything else would eat me alive on this issue, a better way forward needs to be struck.

[Odin]

You rang?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

I think you hit post a minute or two before I did.

[Xiahou]

Even if they exclude felons, I'm still in opposition. I don't much like the idea of a serf class being created and protected by law in this country. Look how well the "guest worker" system has worked for France, or Saudi for that matter. Bad, bad idea.

I guess I hate freedom.

If we need more workers, then allow more legal immigration. I think it really boils down to businesses wanting cheap workers though. I agree about these proposed guest worker programs- they smack of indentured servitude.

[doc_bean]

Even if they exclude felons, I'm still in opposition. I don't much like the idea of a serf class being created and protected by law in this country. Look how well the "guest worker" system has worked for France, or Saudi for that matter. Bad, bad idea.

I guess I hate freedom.

As someone who lives ina country still dealing with the legacy of 'guest worker' programs:

Don't do them.

[HoreTore]

Even if they exclude felons, I'm still in opposition. I don't much like the idea of a serf class being created and protected by law in this country. Look how well the "guest worker" system has worked for France, or Saudi for that matter. Bad, bad idea.

The EU guest worker laws are bullocks, really. The only ones who want them, are companies, particularly in the construction business, as it gives them free access to INCREDIBLY cheap labour. And I mean cheap, it's less than half of the normal minimum. And it's not just the pay, they're usually working 50% longer days too. Why on earth would anyone want to hire a unionized worker when they are over twice as expensive?

This is one of the reasons I want nothing at all to do with the damn market liberals in Brussels, and I'm very glad my country is not a member of the EU...

Yes, we need their labour, but for the love of all that is holy, give them the standard pay so that they are actually something more than mere slaves.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yes, we need their labour, but for the love of all that is holy, give them the standard pay so that they are actually something more than mere slaves.

Coming from someone as a-religious as yourself, that statement doesn't quite have the same impact to it.

You are hitting on the key issue of course.

[doc_bean]

The EU guest worker laws are bullocks, really. The only ones who want them, are companies, particularly in the construction business, as it gives them free access to INCREDIBLY cheap labour. And I mean cheap, it's less than half of the normal minimum. And it's not just the pay, they're usually working 50% longer days too. Why on earth would anyone want to hire a unionized worker when they are over twice as expensive?

This is one of the reasons I want nothing at all to do with the damn market liberals in Brussels, and I'm very glad my country is not a member of the EU...

Yes, we need their labour, but for the love of all that is holy, give them the standard pay so that they are actually something more than mere slaves.

I beleive the EU laws require giving the same benefits to 'guest workers' as to regular workers. They aren't really old school guest workers anymore either, but legal immigrants from the rest of the EU.

At least in theory.

[Louis VI the Fat]

As someone who lives in a country still dealing with the legacy of 'guest worker' programs:

Don't do them.

Tsk. It's perfectly fine to do them. To borrow the slogan of the anti-globalists: think locally, #### globally.

[HoreTore]

I beleive the EU laws require giving the same benefits to 'guest workers' as to regular workers. They aren't really old school guest workers anymore either, but legal immigrants from the rest of the EU.

At least in theory.

But they're not entitled to get the same pay as us. They are only entitled to the pay of their homeland. And the wage difference between poland and norway for example, is simply EXTREME. You just can't live here with that pay.

Btw, they're still called guest workers, as they are here for some months(usually not above 6), then return to their homeland...

@ Seamus: well, I have other holy things.... Like Carmen Electra... Although I wouldn't mind desecrating her...

[doc_bean]

But they're not entitled to get the same pay as us. They are only entitled to the pay of their homeland. And the wage difference between poland and norway for example, is simply EXTREME. You just can't live here with that pay.

Btw, they're still called guest workers, as they are here for some months(usually not above 6), then return to their homeland...

@ Seamus: well, I have other holy things.... Like Carmen Electra... Although I wouldn't mind desecrating her...

Well you're not part of the Glorious European Union

Also: isn't carmen Electra a bit...tacky ?

[HoreTore]

Well you're not part of the Glorious European Union

Also: isn't carmen Electra a bit...tacky ?

We're part of the EEA, and we follow basically every law the EU makes, even though we don't have to, as our politicians are....well, dumb. Including this rubbish.

And don't you offend my holy icon!!

[Hosakawa Tito]

If we need more workers, then allow more legal immigration. I think it really boils down to businesses wanting cheap workers though. I agree about these proposed guest worker programs- they smack of indentured servitude.

There'd be no need of immigrant labor if the jobs that businesses claim "go wanting for workers" actually paid a living wage for current US citizens. Let the illegals apply through proper channels for work visas, give the INS a bigger budget for the staff they need to process these people. Unfortunately, corporate interests and the large amount of "free speech" they shower on the politicos will ensure that any practical, sensible policy changes will not be passed.

I guess since I don't want a few more home invasions, a few more kidnappers and a few more habitual drunk drivers, I must be a racist. At least that's what Senator Graham thinks.

Remember the Mariel Boatlift? We received quite a few of these expatriate Cuban criminals into the NY Dept. of Corrections, because well, crime was their profession. My industry never lacks for clientele.

The Mariel boatlift was a mass movement of Cubans who departed from Cuba's Mariel Harbor to the United States between April 15 and October 31, 1980.

The boatlift was precipitated by a sharp downturn in the Cuban economy, leading to simmering internal tensions on the island and a bid by up to 10,000 Cubans to gain asylum in the Peruvian embassy.

The Cuban government subsequently announced that anyone who wanted to leave could do so, and an impromptu exodus organized by Cuban-Americans with the agreement of Cuban President Fidel Castro was underway. The boatlift began to have negative political implications for U.S. President Jimmy Carter when it was discovered that a number of the exiles had been released from Cuban jails and mental health facilities. The exodus was ended by mutual agreement between the two governments in October 1980. By that time up to 125,000 people had made the journey to Florida.

[Ianofsmeg16]

I don't get it...so you do Yanks like immigrants or not?

Politics confuses me sometimes..

off topic: I'm in a band called Immigration...our slogan...we got called racist the other day... Political Correctness

[Crazed Rabbit]

We like the hard working people who come here to work hard and integrate into America.

We don't like people entering the country illegally, or companies paying them cut price wages that are illegally low.

Crazed Rabbit

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I don't get it...so you do Yanks like immigrants or not?

One more time. No immigrants no America. But we want legal ones