What's the scariest playable AI faction?

[econ21]

My son asked me this question and I could not answer him: what is the scariest faction in M2TW? Let's forget the Timurids and Mongols, as they are special cases and would probably romp home as poll winners. Also, the Aztecs and the Papacy.

I guess I am asking which faction provides the most formiddable opponent or, perhaps, which one would you worry most about if you found them bordering you or marching an army into your lands?

Playing England in the early game, I would choose Denmark. They sometimes march a full stack into the Netherlands and have a lot of decent melee infantry before I have any swords of my own.

[Kobal2fr]

I guess it all depends on what faction you're playing - then whatever faction's the best at what you suck is the scariest. But I must say I'm mostly scared of the Milanese - because I played them and know how great their units are, and because they're always superaggressive and usually come out on top vs other AIs, making them even more powerful.

[sapi]

Ze Byzantine Empire.

Those vards scare me, no matter who I play

[Monsieur Alphonse]

I voted Hungary. For some reason Milan isn't as scary anymore as it was in 1.01. Since I am a disciple of ET (I mostly play England or the Turks), I usually meet Hungary when they have become a powerhouse. They have missile cavalry which is dangerous for the British cavalry and heavy infantry (DFK) who are a menace for the Turks.

[HoreTore]

Poland and Byzantines, because of the polish nobles and the vards. By doubling the AI king's purse, they start fielding entire stacks purely out of polish nobles - terrifying to say the least. Same reason for the byzantines, but they don't field as many vards, so they only get 2nd place...

[Shahed]

They are almost all equally impotent IMO. I've never been fightened by one of those.
Timurids (which are not the point of the poll), yes, I've been scared !

[HoreTore]

They are almost all equally impotent IMO. I've never been fightened by one of those.
Timurids (which are not the point of the poll), yes, I've been scared !

So...you woudn't be scared to see a full stack of polish nobles when you're playing the danes, with all their infantry?

[Shahed]

That would hurt ! but I don't think I would be scared. I don't know why, for some reason M2 does'nt evoke that kind of emotion in me. Maybe I'm just not "into" it, but I think I am. I guess I'll vote Poles then.

EDIT
I just read the 1st post again, the question is "which faction provides the most formiddable opponent or, perhaps, which one would you worry most about if you found them bordering you or marching an army into your lands?"

My answer is the same. Out of all those they are equally unformidable.
To choose one, I would say HRE in late game, provided they are the strongest or one of the top 3 factions.

I voted HRE, considering the case I cited above.

[FactionHeir]

Polish nobles are an easy kill with missiles or light cav though.
Scary faction....I don't think there really is one. Usually the only faction that gets somewhat strong in my campaigns is Hungary with their knight spamming tactics. But I think the worst I ever met was a HRE with half a stack full of teutons.

[HoreTore]

Polish nobles are an easy kill with missiles or light cav though.

If there are a couple of them, perhaps, a full stack, not at all. One unit of polish nobles usually takes 2-3 units of light cav. As for missiles, you'd need a LOT of them... And good quality as well. Odds are you won't have that at in the early game.

[FactionHeir]

If a human were to control the nobles, then maybe they would be more powerful, but with the AI, you just need to send in a general, a few missiles and the rest mailed knights.

If you got fast (light) cav in your faction, have half your cav as light and the other half as heavy. Entangle with light, eliminate with heavy as the AI won't retreat from the engagement and even if it does it will get caught by your light cav.

Only thing AI is good at is an all out charge with brute force.

[PseRamesses]

From the start of the game I´ve to go with Milan. Strong spearline, decent cav and über x-bows tough in melee.

[HoreTore]

If a human were to control the nobles, then maybe they would be more powerful, but with the AI, you just need to send in a general, a few missiles and the rest mailed knights.

If you got fast (light) cav in your faction, have half your cav as light and the other half as heavy. Entangle with light, eliminate with heavy as the AI won't retreat from the engagement and even if it does it will get caught by your light cav.

Only thing AI is good at is an all out charge with brute force.

Well, that would be true for anything but polish nobles and vards. An all out mailed knights charge will hit, do next to no damage on the charge, and then get beaten back violently by the superior nobles... Oh, and let's not forget that your troops will lose a quarter of their men from the javelins...

[Zarky]

There is nothing to be feared but the fear itself.
Defeating even VH AI is just matter of organisation and assassination.

[FactionHeir]

Are we playing the same game HoreTore? :p

[zaher]

When i playing the MTW2, i made my point in collecting troops with gold chevrones, because only the challenge i see in this game is defeating Mongols and Timurids, and you can match them only with high skilled troops( their armies get gold chevrons very fast ). So, for me Sicily is the scariest faction in this term, cause when i played it, all gold chevroned muslim archers and Norman knights was marching arround at turn 50. Probably, at turn 8-10 you can start to produce them, and you know, Norman knights is best medium cavalry available in game, and Muslims archers plays role of light infantry very well at start of game and at start of battle, beating italian spear militia or other pavice xbows in melee easy. Anyway, i personally was scared by sicilians when played Venice, and was surprised by several full stacks of Norman cav and inf on my territory just at turn 15.

[Joshwa]

The Danes. I play as Byzantium the most, and every time i get new map information they get further and further south, towards me. They should be renamed the Blonde Horde

[HoreTore]

Are we playing the same game HoreTore? :p

Perhaps, perhaps not, depends on the levels of tweaking and modding, I suppose...

I haven't touched the troops though, and if I try launching an army of mailed knights at the same number of polish nobles, I'll get beaten every single time. The reason for that, si that the mailed knights power lies in their charge, but cav charges have next to no effect against other cav. So, you're basically left with the backup weapon, and the nobles are stronger there, and they have a much higher armour save as well. And let's not forget that while the knight's charge is ineffective, while they charge they'll suffer from javlin fire, which will at least kill 10%, and usually more.

I hate those bastards. Even more than vards, although that wouldn't be the case if the byzantines had as many vards as the poles have nobles.

[andrewt]

Are we playing the same game HoreTore? :p

Polish nobles have same strength secondary weapon and better defense than mailed knights. They're more expensive but the lower upkeep makes them more spammble.

[hoetje]

Pro question from your son, econ ;)

I voted Milan... they are the one faction I do not like and hate to be in war with.Very aggressive too,and they can hold for a long time if you are in war with them.

[Atalus]

Milans blasted city troops

[Dutch_guy]

Perhaps, perhaps not, depends on the levels of tweaking and modding, I suppose...

I haven't touched the troops though, and if I try launching an army of mailed knights at the same number of polish nobles, I'll get beaten every single time. The reason for that, si that the mailed knights power lies in their charge, but cav charges have next to no effect against other cav. So, you're basically left with the backup weapon, and the nobles are stronger there, and they have a much higher armour save as well. And let's not forget that while the knight's charge is ineffective, while they charge they'll suffer from javlin fire, which will at least kill 10%, and usually more.

I hate those bastards. Even more than vards, although that wouldn't be the case if the byzantines had as many vards as the poles have nobles.

Are we playing the same game HoreTore? :p

I've got to agree with HoreTore on this one. Of all units, excluding the ones I haven't actually faced yet (like janissaries), those Polish nobles tend to make my life hardest in a battle. It takes a lot to drive a 3/4 stack of nobles back, especially when they're being led by a competent general (let's say a three star one).

Missles help, obviously, and repeated cavalry charges also help. But don't forget they can throw their javelins on the run, and are perfectly capable of beating back light cavalry in a melee - and holding heavies (like mailed knights) at bay. Foot units do well against them, but catching them and pinning them down is another story entirely - and if the AI were capable of making that happen less often, they'd be even more effective.

[Kobal2fr]

I voted Hungary. For some reason Milan isn't as scary anymore as it was in 1.01. Since I am a disciple of ET (I mostly play England or the Turks), I usually meet Hungary when they have become a powerhouse. They have missile cavalry which is dangerous for the British cavalry and heavy infantry (DFK) who are a menace for the Turks.

Well, sure dude, but they're pinAAAAARGH

*dies with a slit throat*

[hisn00bness]

yup had to agree with Dutch guy and HoreTore.
As Russia the only thing that beat me back a few times were well developed polish nobles stacks.
The jav range on those monsters outranges the skirmish distance for missile cav so you are supposed to keep your missile cav on manual ; but the further you are the less you can use your sparase arrows to actually do decent damage.

Remember Russia starts off with Kazaks as their main unit. Sure they are fast and cheap and all; but they have somehting like 2 bloody defence AND are vulnerable to missiles.
Boyar's sons get hopelessly outclassed by the Polish monsters as well on all fronts except cost.
Hungarian missile cav and vards are a mere annoyance by comparison.

[PrestigeX]

I think that Milan and also HRE are the worst for me. I don't like fighting their armies because i found that both factions tend to make very large armies of like.. half crossbow and halfassorted infantry, a few horse sometimes. But it's just annoying to fight them because War is expensive, other facitons you can more quickly conquer bcuz they don't have so many armies hanging around.