Page 1 of 21 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 602

Thread: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.

    The list of players and description of their avatars is maintained in the first post of the Chancellor and Governors thread:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...81&postcount=1



    *************KOTR FAQ (UPDATED)**********************

    The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

    Introduction

    The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

    All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

    Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

    How to Join the Game

    In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library.

    The Ranks

    KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

    Electors

    All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

    It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

    Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

    Counts

    Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

    A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

    There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

    Dukes

    Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

    The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

    The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

    Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

    Stewards

    Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

    Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

    Emperor (Kaiser)

    The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

    First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

    Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

    Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

    Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

    Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

    Prince (Prinz)

    The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

    There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

    In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

    Chancellor

    The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

    The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

    The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

    The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

    Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


    ***************KOTR GAME RULES**************

    Game settings

    *MT2TW with the 1.2 patch
    *Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
    *Large unit size.
    *Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
    Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Charter Amendment 6.2: Medifix will no longer be used and in its stead, FactionHeir's trait and ancillary fixes will be implemented. He will also take full responsibility of any issues regarding these files, however unlikely these may be after extensive testing.


    The only mod we will use initially consists of the trait and ancillary files created by factionheir, available to download at:
    http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix124.rar

    The readme is in the spoiler tags.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    KOTRfixREADME.txt
    -
    START OF README
    -
    Version 1.24 (22-05-2007)


    This package contains 2 folders and 6 files, one of which is the readme you are currently reading.
    I have included folders as this will make it easier for you to figure where a file is to go and prevent errors.
    As you can see, one folder is named "data" and another one inside this data folder is labelled "text"
    To install the fixes, simply extract/move the data folder directly from the package into your root medieval directory.
    This means that after doing so, you should find following files in your medieval/data folder:
    export_descr_character_traits.txt
    export_descr_ancillaries.txt
    export_descr_vnvs_enums.txt

    And a folder in your data folder named "text"
    Inside that folder, you should find:
    export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
    export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


    You do not need to extract the readme, as this is purely informational for this installation only.

    In short (for the impatient and to quick check):

    -Extract data folder directly into medieval game directory.
    -Make sure your medieval directory now has a data folder (already present before extracting) and a text folder within (usually not present before)
    -Make sure the following files are found inside the data folder:
    export_descr_character_traits.txt
    export_descr_ancillaries.txt
    export_descr_vnvs_enums.txt
    -Make sure the following files are found inside the text folder:
    export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
    export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


    Now to apply those fixes, you will need to run your medieval game exe using a shortcut or a bat file.
    The target of said file should read similar to this:

    D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first

    Where "D:\Medieval\" varies depending on your installation but medieval2.exe --io.file_first should be constant.

    If you encounter any issues with my fixes, please let me know via any means you feel necessary and I will investigate.
    As per current version, there are no errors showing up in the medieval error log that are from these fixes.

    Also note that those fixes work retroactively in any savegame and at the same time also allow a savegame to continue working without the fixes installed.
    As such, it is perfectly safe to use and will not necessitate its continued usage once a game is started.
    However as per Charter Amendment 6.2 for the KOTR PBM, this fix is to be used by the chancellor currently running the game.

    I hope you enjoy the fixes and if you have problems or suggestions, please let me know.

    FactionHeir

    -
    END OF README
    -




    At a later stage, we may use a mod to give the Forlorn Hope 2 hitpoints.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Charter Amendment CAE1.1: econ21 will be authorised to give AI factions extra florins; for example, by gifting them a lump sum every 10 turns or so.


    To increase the difficulty, the AI will periodically be given money via the consol. Details in the spoil.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I plan to give 100000 gold to the AI each Diet (ie every 10 turns). The command for this is:

    add_money hungary, 100000

    The factions which will benefit initially are:

    england
    france
    spain
    venice
    sicily
    milan
    scotland
    byzantium
    russia
    moors
    turks
    egypt
    denmark
    portugal
    poland
    hungary

    The Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs may be included at a later stage.



    Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

    How to play - detailed rules


    1. The role of players.

    1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]

    *Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:
    In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

    1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.

    1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.

    1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
    Charter Amendment 8.1:
    Clause 1: Amend 1.4 by adding: If no build queue is posted for a settlement, the Chancellor can build what he likes. The Chancellor may upgrade a settlement at any time (ie upgrade the walls regardless of a build queue), unless such an upgrade is forbidden in advance by the governor.

    1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.

    1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.

    1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


    2. The role of the Chancellor.

    2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

    2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

    2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

    2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

    2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

    2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).


    3. The role of the Imperial Diet

    3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

    3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

    Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose THREE House edicts per Diet provided that they have previously securing the backing of two other members of their House.

    3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

    *3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

    3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

    3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

    3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

    *3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

    3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.
    Charter Amendment 8.2: In addition to the Kaiser, an Emergency Session of the Diet may be called by the Prinz, or if three of the four House leaders (Dukes or Stewards) agree to do so.

    3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +5 bonus)

    Appointed Influence (Max 3 points):
    Duke: +2
    Count: +1
    Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

    Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
    15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
    6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

    The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

    Charter Amendment 6.7: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.


    4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

    4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

    4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

    Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

    The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

    4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

    Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
    Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
    Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
    Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
    Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
    Bologna - is not assigned to any house

    4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

    [Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

    4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

    4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

    4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).
    Charter Amendment 8.1:
    Clause 2: Amend 4.7 by adding: If a Duke resigns, the Kaiser appoints a successor.


    4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.

    Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.


    5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

    5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

    5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

    5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

    5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

    5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

    5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

    5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


    6. Armies and Battles

    Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

    6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

    6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

    6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
    Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

    Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:
    1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
    2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
    3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
    4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
    5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
    6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
    7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
    8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
    9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
    10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.
    7. Crusades and missions.

    7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

    7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

    7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose not to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

    *Charter Amendment 9.1:

    The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

    1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

    2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

    3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

    4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward).

    5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.2, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

    6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.

    7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

    8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain an additional +1 influence (over and above any influence for being a Count of a European settlement) but only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 5 influence for all but the Emperor remains.



    8. Historical armies

    Only historical armies can fight battles (ahistorical stacks can be used for transport).

    No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

    Revised maxima for each unit type by number of units in stack


    Crusades are exempt from restrictions on the number of generals.

    Unit type definitions:
    - Knights: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights or equivalent heavy cavalry.
    - Cavalry: Any mounted knights plus non-knightly cavalry (Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants, Turcomans etc)
    -Foot missiles: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners etc
    -Elite infantry: Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass
    -Other foot: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia

    Old rules in spoil.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The following rules apply for field armies of 15+ or more units.

    Generals - max 2 units
    Knights - cavalry or foot, max 8 units inc. generals

    Total cavalry - maximum 8 units, inc mounted knights and generals

    Artillery - maximum 2 units (5 in a siege - if caught in a field battle immediately withdraw excess of over two)
    Foot missiles - maximum 6 units including artillery

    Total elite heavy infantry - max 6

    Other spears & feudal foot - unlimited

    For armies of size 7-14, the above limits are halved.


    Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

    Political
    Elector = Kurfurst
    Count = Graf
    Duke = Herzog
    Prince = Prinz
    Emperor = Kaiser

    Military
    Knight = Ritter
    Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal
    Last edited by econ21; 06-22-2007 at 11:05.

  2. #2
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Reposting for convenience:

    Alright guys, I got 1 more battles coming up, first come first serve:
    Total clock remaining from now: 21 hours

    TinCow: Lothar Steffen+1 Teutonic regiment+Budapest garrison vs Hungarian army

    Ignoramus: Ulrich Hümmel+Adana garrison vs Turks

    Dutch_guy: Günther von Kastilien+FHA+Peter von Kastilien+2 peasant archer regiments vs Poles

    Xdeathfire: Friedrich Scherer+SHA vs French army

    Stig: Ansehelm von Kastilien+Thorn garrison vs Poles

    Stig: Ansehelm von Kastilien vs Poles outside Thorn

    Make sure you got fixes installed properly before fighting
    First file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-2.rar [Currently in posession of Stig]

    Second file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-3.zip [Currently in posession of Stig]

    Third file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-4.zip [Currently in posession of Dutch_guy]

    Fourth file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-4-fin.rar [Currently in posession of Xdeathfire]

    Fifth file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-5.rar [Currently in posession of TinCow]

    Sixth file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-6.rar
    Last edited by FactionHeir; 06-11-2007 at 17:54.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  3. #3
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    On a pirate ship
    Posts
    12,282
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Wait, were we always at war with the Turks?
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  4. #4
    Peter von Kastilien - RIP Member gibsonsg91921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,038

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    yeah
    The late Emperor Peter von Kastilien the Tyrant, Lamm der Wahrheit.

    Join Capo de Tutti Capi II! It's totally amazing!

  5. #5

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    So here I come...Markus Steffen of the Imperial House of Bavaria newly appointed Count of Marseille by Steward Gerhard Steffen.

    Is he my vater btw? I couldn't find that info in the library. Stuperman said he'd sent me a long intro on monday...I don't quit know what to answer IC atm.

  6. #6
    Guest Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    At the bar
    Posts
    4,215

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    If I were you I'd change to Matthias Steffen, he has more command and influence in the Diet

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by McIwoo
    Is he my vater btw?
    Welcome - yes, he's your father.

    It's a good idea to get into the habit of periodically downloading savegames so you can see what's going on, where you avatar is and what traits he's picked up. Although the Chancellor makes most decisions, you should find them willing to listen to ideas you have for the deployment of your avatar.
    Last edited by econ21; 06-09-2007 at 23:53.

  8. #8
    Chretien Saisset Senior Member OverKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    2,891

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    I guess I'll take Matthias then (Sorry about swiping your namesake Stuperman ).
    Chretien Saisset, Chevalier in the King of the Franks PBM

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Right, that's Bavaria sorted out then.

    It's a real shame we lost Erhard van Mahren now, because Austria has no spares and we have to find a place for Ituralde. Franconia has a stack of spare avatars.

  10. #10
    Chretien Saisset Senior Member OverKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    2,891

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Hmmm, now I have to think of a way to make Matthias distinct from Otto.

    Let's see, GH went from Rogue Kaiser to Religious Company Man.

    TC went from Religious Fanatic to Callow Youth.

    Kagemusha went from Old War Horse to Drunken Psychotic.

    Econ, not to predict, will go from Paragon of Chivalry to a Profane Lady's Man.

    All meant in jest.

    Suggestions from the Peanut Gallery on how I should proceed?
    Chretien Saisset, Chevalier in the King of the Franks PBM

  11. #11
    Guest Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    At the bar
    Posts
    4,215

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Ituralde can switch house and hope the Siegfried becomes the prince
    Or he can sit and wait

  12. #12
    Augustus Sempronius Member StoneCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Some where in Asia Minor scouting.
    Posts
    337

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    OK, but Otto played both side of the coin in the religious side of the battle.

    Maybe start off with sibling rivalry with Lothar? Since both has that high command star, I would guess they are pretty competitve when young?


    Econ, I don't think there was a spare in the 1st place for the Austrian, as Erhard was assigned to gibsonsg before he fought the battle. We have have to wait for one of the von Mahren gals to get married then, or killed off some of the spare Franconian avatars, that will probably provoke an outrage among the house Franconian. :D

  13. #13

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    yes I downloaded the last save and checked both Matthias and Markus before I picked. I thought it'd be better if I start with a less influent char since I don't have much experience of the game.

    Nice to see so much activity. Will do my building queue and IC messages tomorrow evening.

    OverKnight Old War Horse to Drunken Psychotic sounds good, care to take your elder brother on board for a bierstube/weinstube crawl?

  14. #14
    Chretien Saisset Senior Member OverKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    2,891

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Hey Bro,

    Matthias is a "Sensible Drinker" and "Religiously Proper" so no wild parties.

    However, "Aloof", "Swift to Judge", "Brave" and "Honest" could make for a lethal combination in the Diet.

    Of course I think all the Sons of Steffen inherited "Feeling Poorly" from Dad. Probably from the near tropical, Witch filled enviroment we were raised in.

    When did Markus become Count of Marseille? I missed that one.
    Last edited by OverKnight; 06-10-2007 at 00:56.
    Chretien Saisset, Chevalier in the King of the Franks PBM

  15. #15
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Probably via PM or so.
    You can cure yourself from Hypochondriac by staying in a settlement with church or building churches.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  16. #16
    Augustus Sempronius Member StoneCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Some where in Asia Minor scouting.
    Posts
    337

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    I think Lothar didn't get that trait.

  17. #17
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    He was born early enough to not get it (the traits are calculated 4 turns before coming of age)
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  18. #18
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Northnovas:

    Races are more expensive than lowering taxes, so only advisable if you are aiming for horse breeders guild or low taxes still cause riot.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  19. #19
    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Maitland
    Posts
    1,221

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir
    Northnovas:

    Races are more expensive than lowering taxes, so only advisable if you are aiming for horse breeders guild or low taxes still cause riot.
    I knew you would have an answer. I never read a proper explaination in the manual. I didn't know the txt script was so informative.
    Whatever works to keep the populace happy.

  20. #20
    Senior member Senior Member Dutch_guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Holland.
    Posts
    5,006

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Okay, battle fought and done, here's the latest save:

    http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-4-fin.rar

    I'm an athiest. I get offended everytime I see a cold, empty room. - MRD


  21. #21
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Great, please send me a post battle screen too.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    We now have the ability to train Forlorn Hope at Sofia. We did mention modding them to 2HPs at the beginning of the campaign, but looking at the unit stats, I have second thoughts. I think they will be too powerful. When we started the campaign, it was possible CA made an error - two patches in, it is obvious CA intended them to be as they are and perhaps with good reason. They are probably better left as a characterful, if not terribly cost-effective unit.

    However, Factionheir suggests that we mod it so that Dismounted Gothic Knights are recruitable (in the vanilla game they are MP only). Looking at the stats and comparing them to zweihanders, they seem quite balanced. Better armour but higher upkeep and they will bite into our quota on knights. So I have no objection to modding them into the game. What building requirement do you suggest, Factionheir? Perhaps one tier higher than Zweihanders?

    Does anyone have objections? Otherwise, I suggest we let factionheir update his mini-mod to make this change and start playing with it after the current batch of battles have been fought.

  23. #23
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Folorn Hope are city units trained at a mayor's palace in Milan at the moment btw :D

    Current (important) stats for Forlorn Hope:
    Code:
    soldier          Forlorn_Hope, 24, 0, 1.2 (name, men, officer, mass)
    attributes       very_hardy
    stat_health      1, 0 (hitpoints)
    stat_pri         17, 6 (Attack, Charge)
    stat_pri_armour  7, 5, 0, metal (Armour, Defence, Shield, Armour sound type)
    stat_heat        5 (Exhaustion factor - higher = worse)
    stat_mental      11, low, untrained (Morale, reliability to shock, level of training)
    stat_cost        620 (training), 250 (upkeep)
    armour_ug_levels 3, 4 (Starting armour, upgrade yes/no, how many)
    armour_ug_models Forlorn_Hope, Forlorn_Hope_ug1
    ;unit_info        17, 0, 12 (Unit summary)



    Stats for DGK:
    Code:
    soldier          Dismounted_Gothic_Knights, 48, 0, 1.2 (name, men, officer, mass)
    attributes       hardy
    stat_health      1, 0 (hitpoints)
    stat_pri         14, 6 (Attack, Charge)
    stat_pri_armour  10, 4, 0, metal (Armour, Defence, Shield, Armour sound type)
    stat_heat        6 (Exhaustion factor - higher = worse)
    stat_mental      9, normal, trained (Morale, reliability to shock, level of training)
    stat_cost        810 (training), 225 (upkeep)
    armour_ug_levels 6 (Starting armour, upgrade yes/no, how many)
    armour_ug_models Dismounted_Gothic_Knights
    ;unit_info        14, 0, 14 (Unit summary)



    Stats for Zweihänder (baseline)
    Code:
    soldier          Zweihander, 48, 0, 1.2 (name, men, officer, mass)
    attributes       hardy
    stat_health      1, 0 (hitpoints)
    stat_pri         14, 6 (Attack, Charge)
    stat_pri_armour  7, 4, 0, metal (Armour, Defence, Shield, Armour sound type)
    stat_heat        5 (Exhaustion factor - higher = worse)
    stat_mental      9, normal, trained (Morale, reliability to shock, level of training)
    stat_cost        680 (training), 150 (upkeep)
    armour_ug_levels 3, 4 (Starting armour, upgrade yes/no, how many)
    armour_ug_models Zweihander, Zweihander_ug1
    ;unit_info        14, 0, 11 (Unit summary)



    As you can see above, I listed the most vital unit stats for all three. Zweihander and DGK are there to compare Forlorn Hope with.

    The most striking factors immediately are:
    Forlorn Hope - 24 men (on small unit size)
    DGK and ZH - 48 men

    But regarding cost:
    Forlorn Hope - 620, 250 -> 25.83 per man, 10.42 per man per turn
    DGK - 810, 225 -> 16.88 per man, 4.68 per man per turn
    ZH - 680, 150 -> 14.17 per man, 3.13 per man per turn

    Of course unit attack/defence:
    Forlorn Hope - 17 (6), 12 [13 with upgrade]
    DGK - 14 (6), 14
    ZH - 14 (6), 11 [12 with upgrade]

    Other factors:
    Forlorn Hope - City trained (Mayor's palace), very_hardy
    DGK - Castle trained (Armoury), hardy, very slow (due to starting with advanced plate), exhausts quickly
    ZH - Castle trained (Armoury), hardy

    Overall, DGK are worse than ZH due to being slower, more expensive in both training and upkeep, and exhausting faster. The only edge they have over ZH are 2 more armour.
    FH have 1 more armour than ZH and 3 more attack but are double as expensive to train and cost triple the upkeep per turn.
    Thus in conclusion, if all 3 were hirable in their current state, ZH are the only units actually worth it. The other units would be both overpriced and much weaker in comparison. FH in particular also is very vulnerable to morale shocks and has a lower effective attack then DGK and ZH because they are untrained instead of trained.
    If FH gained 2 hp instead of 1, they'd be approximately 50% more effective, because they still are only half the men and die just as easily to charges as a larger unit due to having the same mass. Then they'd actually be somewhat worth their cost, although personally I think they ought to get 0.2 added to mass to resist cav charges slightly better in addition and have a normal instead of low resistance to shock (charges, gunpowder, fire). They can stay untrained to reflect they are city troops and suicide squads.

    For DGK vs ZH, I suppose the reason CA left them out is because they didn't actually balance that unit in context of late units yet. Its upkeep is much higher than any other late sword infantry (noble swords, armoured swords, ZH all have 150 upkeep) although they are on par with DNK and DEK in terms of upkeep (although DGK are about 280 more expensive to hire) That said, their attack value is very low compared to the polearm knights who have 21, so overall even if they could be built, in their current state there wouldn't be much of a point in building them except maybe roleplay value. To make them more ffective for their price, they would ideally get +3 armour and +5 attack, but since we do consider HRE to have slightly worse infantry than other factions, +2 armour and +2 attack would make them at least somewhat viable.
    Last edited by FactionHeir; 06-10-2007 at 14:36.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  24. #24
    Master Procrastinator Member TevashSzat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    University of Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,367

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    I am fighting battle now.
    "I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." - Issac Newton

  25. #25
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Alright, noting you down
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  26. #26
    Master Procrastinator Member TevashSzat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    University of Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,367

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    I won the battle and it was a heroic victory with me having about 550 men left. Battle was a pretty hard one and in the middle, it seemed that I lost since my left flank was held by halberd militia and it routed, but the French general without any bodyguards literally ran into my mounted crossowmen and I salvaged the battle to win.

    Also, I was thinking of going to take Caen next turn since it has a small garrison and I just beat a large French army.

    I ended the turn to see what would happen and there was some troubling things. The Hungarians would assault Budapest and an autoresolve has us losing. Also, the English signed a peace treaty with the Danes which means we lost support in taking Antwerp.
    Last edited by TevashSzat; 06-10-2007 at 15:42.
    "I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." - Issac Newton

  27. #27
    Guest Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    At the bar
    Posts
    4,215

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Seriously don't take Caen
    One, there's no edict for it.
    Two, the French are more or less finished, let's keep this game fun with some enemies.

  28. #28
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Well fought Xdeathfire. I was hoping you'd get a heroic victory with that force and a challenging battle :)

    Budapest won't be taken by the Hungarians if TC attacks them as ordered. If he doesn't, chances are it could be lost.

    I got a few regiments of cavalry coming your way from Staufen btw. Newly trained elites.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  29. #29
    Senior member Senior Member Dutch_guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Holland.
    Posts
    5,006

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Browsing through the Mausoleum I only just noticed how many holy relics Otto von Kassel managed to acquire in his life - never had an avatar with so many in my games

    I'm an athiest. I get offended everytime I see a cold, empty room. - MRD


  30. #30
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: King of the Romans OOC thread VII

    Most of them just gave +1 piety though, so the more common ones.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

Page 1 of 21 1234511 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO