English v Timurid

[Matt_Lane]

I'm currently playing England and I'm looking for advice on how to deal with the Timurid hordes.

I recently defeated the Mongols with some cavalry heavy stacks so when the Timurids came into play in the North East I thought nothing of sending the same up to meet them. However they proceeded to give me a lesson in humility, pretty much walking through some of my best troops. What followed was a 'Soviet' style campaign with me giving ground and troop stacks in a war of attrition that my larger economy seemed to win (the first round any way).

Not satisfied with this I have reverted to an earlier save determined to give a better showing this time round. Can anyone suggest troops and/or tactics available to the English that will help me see off the barbarians.

[Zarky]

When you go into a battle, choose high ground with archers and stakes and heaviest infantry. English Gunpowder troops are what they are so leave them be, but some cannons might help you to drop their morale before massive cavalry charge, and lucky shot to their general maybe... Your experience and morale is most likely lower than theirs so you must take all advantages you can get. high ground to beat them before charging to rout all you can, or forest to help you against arrowfire and giving some units better ability to fight, Ambush is also good way, gives you change to beat 1 at a time until they find you and surround you and attack with all other stacks...
And as i have stated earlier somewhere, winning is just matter of organization and assassination
I highly recommend the underlined one
they are really pain in the butt because they have dreadful generals which scare your troops and Elephants with cannons are frightening to your soldiers...

[Buckers]

I had the exact same problem but with the Jerusalem I had that an Cairo and Gaza the mongals kicked me out of Damascus then the Damd Timurids turned up they kicked me out of all but Gaza I had a massive assult on Jerusalem and got my butt kicked I had a stack of mounted and dismounted Knights and Cannon they had a few elephants and oooch I gave the region up but not before a battle in the open which I would only do where I had the higher ground and bombarded them.

[Matt_Lane]

Thanks for the advice. I agree the choice of terrain is critical when dealing with this faction. Also my assassins have been able to take out some of the lower Generals and Captains but their core of dread Generals seem untouchable.

For me the tipping factor are the Elephants (surprise surprise). I'm having to set aside so many archers and balista's to try and contain them its leaving me light on forces to deal with their heavy cavalry. Is there a better way to deal with the Panza-phants. Being English I don't have any mounted spear chuckers available and I've been camped out round Bagdad for a while but so far no mercenary Elephants have come by.

[zaher]

Irish kerns can do good work for England, if you cannot hire mercenaries - javeliners from Iberia or South Italy. Put them on skirmish and attack elephants, they usually are in vanguard of Timurid army. 2 kern units must kill 1 ele unit in 20-30 sec with good morale support ( rally ability or standing behind some elite units ) almost without loses. Also, i beleve retinue + yomen longbowmens can also do this job, cause Timurids arent so mobile as Mongols and move slowly with their haldberd militia. Just let them shot their normal ammo, they will kill eles much faster then with fire ammo.

[FactionHeir]

Simple.
Have the following composition for your army:
1 general (high chivalry preferred)
12 retinue longbowmen
4 armoured swordsmen
3 ballistae

Having reinforcement stacks of similar composition is advisable.
Tactics will just be building a ring of stakes and using ballistae to shoot down elephants. They can't charge you with their cav and their infantry should ideally be beaten by your infantry.

[Furious Mental]

That sort of stack is the thing you need. The Timurid heavy cav shouldn't even be an issue if you are the English; your longbowmen's stakes will see to that. Concentrate the ballistae and fire arrows on the elephants and they shouldn't last too long.

[Slicendice]

Put forts on the rivers and funnel them into the area you want to fight.

For instance there are some mountains just north of Jerusalem just above the Dead Sea. If you wait there until their stacks touch you and launch an attack then you will have a very good position. They are aggressive and will attack even though you initiated. There is a spot up in the mountain with limited access to it. Put down stakes and hire some javelins for the elephants. When they come up the narrow pass with their elephants kill them and it will choke the pass even more. I had a stack of Egyptians there once and I killed 3 Timurid stacks there. I had no stakes though, just javelins and brave spearmen and archers.

If you fight on the river crossings, (and sometimes they will engage you there) you are sure to win. Just put the stakes up by the bridge and fall back enough that they won't immediately engage your infantry. Hit them with all ranged fire while they form up there. Their tendency is to use their ranged attack as that is there advantage, but bunched up in a pile with your archers surrounding them is not so advantageous.

Also try the river just east of Aleppo. You have nice high ground to fire down on them.

You can also hire mercenary elephants. I wouldn't use them except when you know you can absolutely win since they are so expensive and rare. But dange they are fun.


One more tactic is the attrition method. Garrison cities with longbowmen and put down lots of stakes at the entrance and along walls you think they might break down. Keep some infantry on the ground near the stakes so their cavalry will charge through instead of walk through. (very disheartening) You will eliminate their horse archers this way and their main advantage. So even if you lose each city you will deal them heavy losses.

The Timurids will attack you more often in the mountains than on a river. But when they do attack a river keep a couple small stacks behind you to reinforce your stack and to act as a block in case your main stack is defeated. The Timurids will have to hit each one to get through to your main stack and it will make them run out of movement points thus allowing you to escape. Don't use forts for this because your army will retreat into it and you will be trapped like a rat.

[Slicendice]

Ballista seem much better than cannon imo. It is so much more acurate. It's difficult watching your cannons shoot barrage after barrage and not hit a thing especially when the enemy is in a big pile up. grr.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Greetings Sir!

You are fortunate to be playing as a faction that does not call the Middle East or the Eastern Steppes home!

Basically, your major industrial centers, population, and trade are safely out of Mongol or Timurid hands. What is there to worry about? Unless you are an Orthodox faction, you are safe due to a strategy I like to call Medieval 2, Holy War.

Let the Mongols come. Let the Timurids come. Let them advance like the fools they are. Let them sack the middle east, let them take the steppes. Let them move West, leaving garrisons in their wake and slowly losing troops to conquest and dispersion. Let their stacks move further apart... let them revel in their cheap, easy victories. Let their confidence get the best of them. Let their strength be their greatest weakness...

Then, when they are most vulnerable, sitting on a bloated empire, their invasion armies far from one another, depleted somewhat by their attacks... as they are just beginning to feel the effects of their victory ales and drop into a drunken stupor...

CRUSH THEM!!!

Call a crusade on their easternmost province, sign up all your generals with massive stacks to a crusade of epic proportions.

Swiftly sail across the map until you land in the heart of Mongol or Timurid territory with your wave after wave of generals and endless troops, all carrying the banner of Christ.

Surround every single Mongol/Timurid stack with 2, 3, or 4 full stacks, preferably with night fighter ability. If you can isolate each stack one at a time, the easier they will fall.

Their elephants are weak against artillery fire and flaming arrows help spook them. surround their grand armies with the greatest armies the world has ever seen, send wave after wave of zealots and crusaders into the fray, and simply crush their pitiful armies under the sheer weight of numbers.

smash every city you come across until you reach your destination at the heart of Mongol/Timurid territory. Then, fully surround the city with all of your best stacks, and lay siege.

When the city falls, you now have many, many stacks of troops begging for a fight in the heart of enemy territory. Show them what a horde of conquerors is REALLY all about.

Out-Mongol the Mongols with endless stacks of cavalry... make the Timurids timid and stomp all over their elephants with endless waves of spearmen, artillery, and archers...

then, when you are all done, laugh like a maniacal genius and wipe what’s left of them from the bottom of your boot.

Golden horde? Meet Christian horde!

[Zarky]

Just remembered, Camel mercenaries and Afghan Javelinmen
They will do the job for you in destroying elephants when you need Javelinmen, and camels frighten the horses, Night Fighting and ambushes are your best tricks if you want to deal with them without losing lands and then Crusading them. Night fight excludes all captains and maybe some weaker generals (do they have anything else expects good and dreadful ^^) from the battle, and ambush, as said gives 1 on 1 situation.