Global warming

[Byzantine Mercenary]

ok this is what ive been told about global dimming

global dimming is caused by small particles in the atmosphere that reflect incoming light or act as cloud nuclei, they can be produced when you burn stuff like coal or diesel and from Sulfate aerosols, as we have cleaned up our act and switched to fuels that produce less soot and have stopped using as many Sulfate aerosols the effect has reduced, so while stopping emissions of soot or Sulfate aerosols could indeed warm the planet up stopping cleaner co2 emissions, in general, wont.

incedentally i would not regard humans as an abbarition to the natural enviroment, it it the technologys that we employ that are such, the plants and animals of earth are simply not adapted to them.

also i believe that current reasearch shows that this warming is at such a rate that does not generally occur naturally and definately is not set to occur at a rate which is slow enough for earths animals and plants to adapt to via evoloution, of course climate change is not nessesarly wrong as such but we will most likely see a dramatic reduction in biodiversity as life adjusts, and a good deal of human lives could be at risk

[JR-]

also i believe that current reasearch shows that this warming is at such a rate that does not generally occur naturally and definately is not set to occur at a rate which is slow enough for earths animals and plants to adapt to via evoloution, of course climate change is not nessesarly wrong as such but we will most likely see a dramatic reduction in biodiversity as life adjusts, and a good deal of human lives could be at risk

actually, it was becoming increasingly accepted by the geology community that catastrophic (by which they mean rapid and severe) climate change was common in geological history, quite a reserve from the previous accepted wisdom that all climate change was gradual.
this change was taking place around the year 2000 when i was studying geology.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Phew it's so hot in here I can't write an answer at the moment. I'll be back and reply the replies to my posts later, unless it gets even hotter here.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

actually, it was becoming increasingly accepted by the geology community that catastrophic (by which they mean rapid and severe) climate change was common in geological history, quite a reserve from the previous accepted wisdom that all climate change was gradual.
this change was taking place around the year 2000 when i was studying geology.

thats interesting although just because climate change is common (and even if this one is natural) it would still be damaging to current biodiversity and so a problem

i would also point out that just because its called global warming doesnt mean that the whole world will get hotter i suppose climate change is a better term for it. There could be localised coolings (especially if the gulf stream fails)

I would also point out that despite recordings such as those Gawain found the vast magority of peer review papers are suggesting climate change (to varying degrees), there is nothing i would like more then to hear that all the carbon dioxide we have produced will have little effect, but i believe that the climatologists can do a better job of analizing data such as that highlighted then me and if they are still (in the vast magority) saying global warming is a reality then im gonna believe them.

Incedentally the American Association of Petroleum Geologists is the only scientific society that rejects the conclusions of the The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, those conclusions being that:

"most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations,"

now that may not be a definate but its the most likely anser

[Don Corleone]

"most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations,"

Interesting. Isn't this that report where they wrote the conclusion 1 year before the report? But by all means, I'd like to review the report for myself. Do you have a link?

[drone]

In a couple of years, some volcano is going to blow it's top, spew tons of ash into the atmosphere, and cool down the planet by a degree for a year or so. This event will or will not solve global warming, but it will screw up everyone's data and agendas.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Interesting. Isn't this that report where they wrote the conclusion 1 year before the report? But by all means, I'd like to review the report for myself. Do you have a link?

yeah sure

http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf

the qoute is from page 10

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Do any of you realise that the unpresended growth in the Human population is partialy because of global warming? Its good for us and plants. Would you prefer another Ice age? Its not like its going to get so how we will go extinct. You may have to move. But it wont happen over night. Maybe your grand kids will have to move. We cant put a thermostat on the earth. It will always fluctuate . Always has always will. Look at it this way. Enjoy the summer while you can because thats all this is in the greater scheme of things. Winter will return someday and they will be longing for such a wonderful and warm climate as we enjoy today.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Do any of you realise that the unpresended growth in the Human population is partialy because of global warming? Its good for us and plants. Would you prefer another Ice age? Its not like its going to get so how we will go extinct. You may have to move. But it wont happen over night. Maybe your grand kids will have to move. We cant put a thermostat on the earth. It will always fluctuate . Always has always will. Look at it this way. Enjoy the summer while you can because thats all this is in the greater scheme of things. Winter will return someday and they will be longing for such a wonderful and warm climate as we enjoy today.

only the most alarmist are saying that the whole human species will be wiped out, its very unlikely but millions or even billions could die as the fertility of agricultural regions fluctuates

this isnt like you have a greenhouse thats just getting a bit warmer yeah sure some plants might like warmer conditions if they are adapted for them but other plants would prefer it was colder or wetter, the fact is that most plants have themselves sorted perfectly for the condidtons they are in, so any fluctuation they are not adapted for is likely to be harmful, no-one is talking about stopping natural paterns but reducing our Co2 emmissions isnt stopping natural patterns the accepted theory (the gaia hypothosis) is that earths temperature is kept relatively stable normally and so does not fluctuate like it is now, naturally

a bit of info on the gaia hypothosis
http://www.mountainman.com.au/gaia_jim.html

[Gawain of Orkeny]

ts very unlikely but millions or even billions could die as the fertility of agricultural regions fluctuates

Very unlikely is being generous. Its highly doubtful in my book.

Listen ask and botanist and they will tell you the earth is producing more food now than at any time in history. Much of this is because of global warming. Again enjoy summer while it lasts because winter shall return with a vengance.

[Rodion Romanovich]

One funny thing: you know how windows task bar sometimes cuts off half the title of a window? Well in my setup, the text for this window says "global war...". I think that's quite fitting. Did you know that American and EU defense expert analysts both agree that global warming is the most dangerous threat to society in the future, ranked far ahead of terrorism, communism, fascism or anything else?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Do any of you realise that the unpresended growth in the Human population is partialy because of global warming? Its good for us and plants. Would you prefer another Ice age? Its not like its going to get so how we will go extinct.

Human population growth is related to cultural attitudes, and short term fluctuations in resource availability. As scientists have predicted, the short term effect of global warming is increased crop yields, followed by extreme decline in the long term. We're increasing the population significantly at a time when we're passing the turning point in crop yields.

You may have to move. But it wont happen over night. Maybe your grand kids will have to move.

We currently have a 20 times faster climate change than ever before in the history of earth. Man hardly managed to adapt itself to the ice age, even though it came over a period of 300 years. Today, we have a climate change about 20 times faster, and the rate of change also seems to be increasing. It's not a matter of "next generations" any more, it's a matter of your life when you're older.

Maybe you've heard of the problems the third world has with getting clean water? Such problems are now spreading to the temperate regions of earth as well. Maybe within 5 years you will hear some regions in the USA having to transport waters from neighboring areas because their water becomes poisonous, algae-infested, or other euthrophication problems disrupt water supply. In 10-15 years, this may be a problem for entire states in the USA.

[JR-]

We currently have a 20 times faster climate change than ever before in the history of earth. Man hardly managed to adapt itself to the ice age, even though it came over a period of 300 years. Today, we have a climate change about 20 times faster, and the rate of change also seems to be increasing. It's not a matter of "next generations" any more, it's a matter of your life when you're older.

rubbish.

geological history is littered with catastrophic climate change.

"20 times faster climate change than ever before"

like to tell that to the people who witnessed:

Toba -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Toba
3-3.5 degree temperature drop (C)

Mount Tambora -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tambora
0.5 degrees C drop (the year with no summer) (C)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

Kumae -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwae
0.5 degree temperature drop (C)

Huaynaputina -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaynaputina
0.8 degrees temperature drop (C)

Krakatoa -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatau
0.5 degree temperature drop (C)

Mount Katmai -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Katmai
0.4 degree temperature drop (C)

Pinatubo -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinatubo
0.5 degree temerpature drop (C)

Deccan Traps -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deccan_Traps
Potential cause of the KT extinction

Siberian Traps -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Traps
Potential cause of the PT extinction

somehow i think things have been plenty worse in times past, quite with mankind's intervention.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

This is unlike pollution supporters

One more time there are no pollution supporters.

This may be valid for some previous scenarios, but the current CO2 increase is caused by pollution.

What pollution are you speaking of exactly? And that is not a fact now is it?

We can do everything we do today without polluting,

For heavens sake if we go by with what SCOTUS and you guys are now calling pollution even breathing causes pollution. So the solution is that we all stop.

[Rodion Romanovich]

geological history is littered with catastrophic climate change.

You seem to forget that your examples are merely temporary discontinuities, lasting for one or two years, then things return to normal again.

Global warming is a 60 years trend, with temperature increasing on average 20 times faster than anything we've ever seen before in history.