King of the Romans OOC thread VIII

[Stig]

And where did he do that, all he said was is:

Oh, and Stig, there's an IC reason why Ulrich couldn't send Ansehelm on the expedition.

He still needs to give the reason

[Ituralde]

It really is important to relax a little here. We have every right to be angry with Ulrich Hümmel, but we clearly should not be angry with Ignoramus.

I don't mind a Chancellor once in a while that is not afraid of making enemies. None the less the rate of it is astounding.


Edit: Oh and yes, it seems like I'm the new Prince. Wanted to let this evolve later on, but I'm not afraid to use my Princehood should the Dukes decide to not act.

[Stig]

Gibson still needs to fight a battle, so I say to him: take your time before you get your character killed. (and in 48 hours refuse to fight the battle (they might not even attack you afterall))

Than the dukes have a change to act, or the Prinz.

And I have nothing against Igno, I think it's just rude that he doesn't answer my question. He doesn't need to give an entire explanation, but he can say more than:

Oh, and Stig, there's an IC reason why Ulrich couldn't send Ansehelm on the expedition.

The only thing I have against him OOC is that he very well knows that he's killing the Franconian House. He send Peter to death and mostlikely Ansehelm will die in a few turns.

[Ignoramus]

How many times do I need to tell you that I am "not" trying to kill off anyone. I didn't order Peter to attack the Russians, they attacked him. I tried to retreat, but I found there were no movement points remaining. I was genuinely suprised when that Russian army appeared. I don't have "grudges" against Houses, I try and play the game by three measures:

1). How I would play normally in a campaign.
2). How my character would run the empire.
3.) According to the Diet(can be overriden by 2, if the character has disloyal traits).

I am sorry if you are annoyed by the fact that Ansehelm isn't going on the expedition. I'm not happy at destroying someone's fun, but "nameless people" required that of me before they would vote for me. Why, I don't know, but in order to win the election I had to agree. It would be unfair for me to reveal who the people were, and so that's all I can say. I hope that answers your question.

Please don't attack me OOC; attack Ulrich Hummel IC all you like, but I don't have a grudge or malice against anyone. If some of my actions are taking some of the fun out of the game, I apologise. But you never know, I might get impeached and someone else might be Chancellor(hopefully not).

[Stig]

Yup that answer my question

And I think those people are pretty sad indeed

But the least you could do is allow me to attack the Poles Ansehelm is stuck to and retreat to Thorn

BTW I do know who asked not to send me on that crusade. It's someone with his special secret order, and he knows I'm right

And you have the choice: ignoring an edict or ignoring some voters, one is worse than the other

[FactionHeir]

This is just a thought, but is it possible make certain acillaries requirements for certain traits?

If it is, then you could create a Count/Duke ancillary that would allow us to get traits without having to actually be in the settlement, making our avatars the governor of a settlement both in the game and the PBEM. There could even be a 'Chancellor' ancillary that would avoid the problem of certain Emperors taking the blame for the assassination that certain Chancellors order. *wink wink*.

If it isn't, then forget I said anything.

The current limitations in the system require that you are inside a settlement to receive its benefits or change the system every turn to account for changes in the settlement. Also, stuff like assassination works by LeaderOrderedAssassination, so it will automatically give it to the factionleader and cannot give it to another avatar. I can think of a small workaround for this but you would need to change the files every diet at the very least and only works if a trait has enough points to show up on the sheet, not for minor points. Also won't work if the leader has an antitrait to the trait.

In other news, looks like Franconia and Austria are up for calling the emergency diet. If Swabia or Bavaria join, it is up to the Prince to confirm it.

[econ21]

In other news, looks like Franconia and Austria are up for calling the emergency diet. If Swabia or Bavaria join, it is up to the Prince to confirm it.

We only need the 3 Dukes. The amendment was that EITHER the Prince OR the 3 Dukes can call an Emergency session.

EDIT: As far as I can make out, only the Duke of Franconia has explicitly called for an Emergency session.

[Ignoramus]

I guess it doesn't look good for Ulrich.

[FactionHeir]

Thanks for the clarification econ, must have missed the or part.
What would Henry say to this?

[Stig]

What would Henry say to this?

He would turn in his grave

I guess it doesn't look good for Ulrich

You could have expected it


BTW who becomes chancellor if it comes to an emergency session, does Warluster get it as Kaiser, or will we have a normal vote?

[FactionHeir]

Good question. Dunno if Warluister can exercise it during an emergency session or not though.

[Stig]

If he gets the choice I would advice him to wait.
If we get a Emergency Session now the next chancellor will have 18 years instead of 20 I take it, so 1 turn less, tho that doesn't matter ofcourse. But still.

And btw, if we get this Session it will be purely about a new chancellor, do we also need new edicts, and an edict to keep all the taken edicts in Diet 10, etc?

[FactionHeir]

Normal edicts stay in place, additional edicts can be added.
New chancellor would have 16 years really as 1242 is about over.

[Stig]

Well the turn still needs to be finished (that can also mean tax adjustments and the like)

Normal edicts stay in place, additional edicts can be added.

Ah danke

[Stuperman]

@econ, I only ment that we had 'clearace to ' take Corsica, I should have said "besieging 4 settlements? I only know of 2, Gaza and Corsica and we only have clearance to attack Corsica"

What's the policy on marrying daughters off, I'm a little annoyed that as her father I wasn't even notified that my daughter had been asked, I understand why I wasn't told for OOC reasons though, having the game hang while I mull potential sutors would be tedious.

IC the Von Kassel Name is an interesting twist.

[Ituralde]

Well acutally an Emergency Session with the impeachment of a Chancellor would be unchartered territory.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

That is the only ruling I could find that even mentions impeachment.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

This is the part which even points to the existence of this impeachment process being an option. Everything else has so far not been written down.
So maybe this would be a good time to think OOC about how an impeachment should be handled.

I guess it would be a vote that needs a 2/3rd majority to pass? More? Less?
Also considering the Chancellor, since 3.7 mentions that upon impeachment of the Chancellor a regular Election takes place, this would mean that the elected Chancellor would govern for a complete new 10 turns!

This would mean a shift of the future Diet sessions. But more importantly older Edicts would expire after 10 turns, from their original point of passing. Maybe something should be incorporated that an impeached Chancellor must follow the Edicts passed in the Diet before the impeachment?

Also, since an impeachment would probably occur at the end of an Emergency Diet, shouldn't there be a regular Diet session right after it? After all, we would need candidates and everything to get an election going.

Just the things I thought of right now. This clearly needs clarification, otherwise everything is up to the Emperor. Although that's not a too bad thought in itself.

[AussieGiant]

Hell this is fun guys!!

Stigs gone

While everyone else is swinging between and

[Stig]

I'm not gone yet

[AussieGiant]

But Stiggy, can I call you Stiggy

You do seem to have been the most annoyed at all this. I know your character is going in a different direction than you wanted, and I know that would also annoy me a lot, but you can't say it's boring now can you?

[Stig]

It's not boring no.
But my definition of a game means it's fun, and as it goes now it's not everything but fun.

Hell I don't care if some don't want me to go on crusade, but I do care if he just throws away a reinforcement army (because I might be able to use that for a crusade). Send Peter on a suicide mission, and ignores Ansehelm so he can be attacked next turn and die.
And I'm even more pissed that the dukes don't want to call an Emergency Session yet, maybe the Prinz should do it afterall.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

Now, where are the consequences?

[FactionHeir]

Would be up to econ as gamemaster to lay out I suppose.

[econ21]

So maybe this would be a good time to think OOC about how an impeachment should be handled.

IIRC, I think there was something about impeachment in the draft charter, but it got taken out after people queried it.

I'd be inclined to keep the procedure simple: 2/3 majority to impeach; if majority achieved, fresh election to replace the Chancellor (Kaiser could use perogative to rule); new Chancellor serves out old one's remaining term and is bound by pre-existing Edicts. We could propose all that as a Charter Amendment if we do get as far as an Emergency Session.

Personally, I'd favour making an Emergency Session fast n furious - one day's debate; one's day vote.

[Stig]

Would be up to econ as gamemaster to lay out I suppose.

Nope, what I mean is Hummel (Igno) is ignoring Edicts and he is not getting punished for it. The punishment should be impeachment.

[econ21]

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

Now, where are the consequences?

On the "political consequences", the key word is "political" - ie "in character".

The Diet has to take a view on how to deal with breaking the edicts or Charter. We have the Emergency Session safeguard. I admit the impeachment process is vague to non-existent, but we can use the session to introduce a Charter Amendment to rectify that.

That's the nice thing about the "democratic" nature of WotS PBMs - they have a flexible mechanism for dealing with this kind of in game (or even out of game) crisis.

Nope, what I mean is Hummel (Igno) is ignoring Edicts and he is not getting punished for it. The punishment should be impeachment.

That's your view. So far, you have not been able to persuade the Kaiser or the Dukes.

[Stig]

So far, you have not been able to persuade the Kaiser or the Dukes.

Because their characters are not in danger of getting destroyed.
How would you feel if you've spend over an hour writing something and later on it isn't needed anymore?

[Ituralde]

Would be up to econ as gamemaster to lay out I suppose.

Actually it would be up to the current Emperor. After all he presides over all disputes concerning the rules of the game.

This makes the Kaiser extremely powerful, especially concerning stuff not governed by the Charter. Right now, as Prince I'd be inclined to vote against anything that might impede me once, I'm Kaiser.

[gibsonsg91921]

hey stiggy im not worried about peter - if the battle turns south ill withdraw him and fight with my other schmucks.

[gibsonsg91921]

hey about gaza - if he doesnt assault and just maintains the siege, the garrison army is reduced. in iggy's defense, thats what he meant by reduction of gaza

[FactionHeir]

And if the Egyptians sally or send a reinforcement army to attack Fredericus we automatically capture Gaza by winning the battle....
And why are knights being sent to besiege Caesarea.

[McIwoo]

c'mon guys, I understand Stig if he had put some efforts into something that cannot be used anymore, but some political conspiracy of some sort can only bring fun into the game.

Perhaps it's time we find a system to play civil wars...after all as far as I know (prolly the end of my nose though) that's what frequently happened in the hre at that time anyway.

If your char dies (let's hope they don't!) pick up another one...it's just a game. Okay now I can run fast to the exit before I get slaughtered