Re: If there was a RTW 1.6 Patch, what would you want in it?
Let me see....
Archers for Carthage- cmon everybody used them on ancient times, just because the balearic slinger got famous doenst mean hannibal had no archers....in fact he had a lot of them.
No phalanx units for german tribes - why is there a german unit making a greek phalanx? these guys didnt even had war tactics, they were all about ambushes and brute force, silly unit in my opinion.
Where is the Immortal unit for Persia? ok, this is after Alexander waste the Persian Empire, but then again spartans still exist in a formidable shape...
Re: If there was a RTW 1.6 Patch, what would you want in it?
Originally Posted by RickFGS
No phalanx units for german tribes - why is there a german unit making a greek phalanx? these guys didnt even had war tactics, they were all about ambushes and brute force, silly unit in my opinion.
Where is the Immortal unit for Persia? ok, this is after Alexander waste the Persian Empire, but then again spartans still exist in a formidable shape...
Persia didn't exist in this point in time. Later it would be conquered by the Parthians, but those were steppe nomads, not true Persians, and their elite fought mounted, not on foot. So, unlike the Spartans, the Persians immortals were well and truly gone.
As for the Germans not using tactics, that's just plain wrong. Germans did not employ army drill like the Hellenes and Romans did, but they were skilled ambushers and generally less impetuous than the Celts. The German spear phalanx probably represents the shield wall, which was commonly used by lesser Germanic warriors.
Re: If there was a RTW 1.6 Patch, what would you want in it?
Originally Posted by Ludens
Persia didn't exist in this point in time. Later it would be conquered by the Parthians, but those were steppe nomads, not true Persians, and their elite fought mounted, not on foot. So, unlike the Spartans, the Persians immortals were well and truly gone.
As for the Germans not using tactics, that's just plain wrong. Germans did not employ army drill like the Hellenes and Romans did, but they were skilled ambushers and generally less impetuous than the Celts. The German spear phalanx probably represents the shield wall, which was commonly used by lesser Germanic warriors.
Shield Wall is hardly a phalanx like the greek ones, take out the phalanx and give them better training and defensive strenght if you want to be accurate.
The first Persians were steppe nomad, so the Parthians are indeed true Persians, as for the Imortals they were revived many times like this article states, although you are correct, since the last true immortals were defeated in 333BC and this game starts almost 1 century after.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Successors
The title of "Immortals" was first revived under the Sassanids. The most famous of the Savaran units were the Zhayedan (Immortals) and numbered 10,000 men, like the Achaemenid predecessors, with the difference that they were cavalry. Their task was mainly to secure any breakthroughs and to enter battles at crucial stages.
Main article: Immortals (Byzantine)
The title of "Immortals" was again revived under the Byzantine Empire, under the Emperor Michael VII (1071–1081). His general Nikephoros reorganised the central field army ("Tagmata") of the Eastern Empire following the disastrous defeat of Manzikert by the Turks in 1071. The remnants of the provincial troops of the Eastern Themes (military provinces) were brought together in a new Imperial Guard regiment named after the Persian Immortals and reportedly also numbering about 10,000 men. These were however cavalry, like the remainder of the Byzantine field army.
Main article: Iranian Imperial Guard
The modern Iranian Army under the last Shah included an all volunteer Javedan Guard, also known as the "Immortals" after the ancient Persian royal guard. The "Immortals" were based in the Lavizan Barracks in Tehran. By 1978 this elite force comprised a brigade of 4,000–5,000 men, including a battalion of Chieftain tanks. Following the overthrow of the Imperial regime in 1979 the "Immortals" were disbanded.
So, ill stick to my previous statements, archers for carthage and no phalanx for germania.
Re: If there was a RTW 1.6 Patch, what would you want in it?
Shield Wall is hardly a phalanx like the greek ones, take out the phalanx and give them better training and defensive strenght if you want to be accurate.
I'd agree, not appropriate IMHO.
Ok, Rome isn't exactly authentic, but a German Phalanx is - possibly - more outlandish than Briton Head Hurlers, or Roman Flaming Pigs
Last edited by Shieldmaiden; 07-04-2007 at 00:51.
"Now, once more I must ride with my knights, to defend what was and the dream of what could be..."
Re: If there was a RTW 1.6 Patch, what would you want in it?
They did set pigs on fire a lot on those days, same as cows and everything with 4 legs they come across with :P
I wonder if a General actually tried using flaming pigs against elephants, or if its entirely fantasy? It might be a viable tactic...
The head hurlers its kinda fantasy but then again it really puts the "barb" on barbarians, so its a nice touch.
Yes, plus its only building on actual terror tactics.
Back on topic to "1.6"
I'd like to see Peasants changed - like in BI - to be only 50% effective if Garrisoned, this is so Town Watch, etc become useful.
I'd like to see the Diplomacy tweaked to be more consistent with the Campaign situation, and not feel so random.
And heresy, woo! I'd like the Marian Reforms to be delayed - to their historical date (107 BC, or say between 157 BC - 107 BC in RTW?) to give other Factions a chance before Rome goes "Uber".
This would entirely change the flavour of the Roman Campaigns, etc
Last edited by Shieldmaiden; 07-04-2007 at 11:21.
"Now, once more I must ride with my knights, to defend what was and the dream of what could be..."
Re: If there was a RTW 1.6 Patch, what would you want in it?
Originally Posted by RickFGS
Shield Wall is hardly a phalanx like the greek ones, take out the phalanx and give them better training and defensive strenght if you want to be accurate.
The first Persians were steppe nomad, so the Parthians are indeed true Persians, as for the Imortals they were revived many times like this article states, although you are correct, since the last true immortals were defeated in 333BC and this game starts almost 1 century after.
I don't quite follow your logic. Both the Parthians and the Persians were steppe nomads, so the Parthians are Persians? Anyway, the Persians had ceased to be steppe nomads around 8 centuries before the start of the game. The immortals were revived by the Sassanids, not the Parthians, and as a cavalry unit, not an infantry one. The cavalry immortals are included in BI.
I agree that BI's shieldwall would be a better way of representing the German formation than the phalanx. However, the unit is not fictional: Germans used lances and dense formations. It doesn't require a genius to realize spears are more effective in a block.
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