ambushes, useful or a waste of time and resources?

[0101001]

What are your opinions?

[Xehh II]

I don't ambush, I don't know why my but none of my armies seem to go near a forest.( I also think the AI knows where your ambushes are.)

[PenguinLobster]

It would probably pretty useful in Germany or Gaul but most places dont have enough trees no make it worthwhile or possible.

[Thaatu]

Thanks to ambushes in my Aedui campaign two Lusotannan, three Sweboz, one Arvernii and two Roman armies got completely wasted. With about 20 000 enemies slaughtered in ambushes alone, I'd say useful.

[Morte66]

Thanks to ambushes in my Aedui campaign two Lusotannan, three Sweboz, one Arvernii and two Roman armies got completely wasted. With about 20 000 enemies slaughtered in ambushes alone, I'd say useful.

How do you try for ambushes on the strategic map, and how do you make the most of a successfual ambush on the tactical map?

Go on, write us a mini ambushing guide. ;)

[geala]

I avoid to ambush someone because I hate it to fight in woods.

Normally my spies help me to avoid ambushes. The few ambushes I ran into yet with main armies were no problems because I cowardly move my armies only when I have the numerical advantage; otherwise I avoid battles. If few units (reinforcements f.e.) are ambushed I always run away.

[Shifty_GMH]

Don't remember ever being ambushed by the AI. That might be because I always move my legions around with a spy attached....and my units never move around in enemy territory without sufficient strength. Tried to ambush the AI a few times, but it always gets discovered. If I get the opportunity I usually try to set one up.

[Horst Nordfink]

I've been ambushed many times by the AI, but I've always had time to set my army up.

I've never been outnumbered when ambushed though, as I always travel with as big an army as possible.

[Puupertti Ruma]

Trick to get AI to walk to your ambushes is to use a bait. Just have your stack sitting in a wood and place a lonesome unit in a way that AI can see it and if it tries to attack it must move besides your stack thus triggering an ambush. If the ambush succeeds is of course purely based on luck.

[Thaatu]

I just look for a forested "square" on the campaign map that's between the enemy and its target, usually my settlement. It helps if the ambush site is next to a road, meaning the enemy is most likely taking that route. If the enemy walks into the ambush, I deploy the troops depending on the situation. You can see the enemy marching column in the deployment phase, so it'll help a lot. The most important things are that the enemy has its cavalry on the front and the general is on the front left.

Here's a quick illustration:


The dark blue lines are my elites, the blue lines are my regular troops, the cyan lines are missile units, the red block with a yellow dot is the enemy general and the huge face is my general, preparing for his bloodbath.

Also, in these situations I don't let my troops throw javelins before charging. If you let them, the enemy will have enough time to organize.

[Shylence]

exactly how i do it!!!

[Morte66]

Hmm, those tactics seem promising. Lately I've mostly been running armies that aren't in the business of charging, e.g. phalanx/missile combos that like to pin and flank. So I couldn't quite see the advantage in ambushing. But I see what you're getting at now.

[KuKulzA]

as Lusotana ambushing is awesome!
As Sauka Raka I've had more trouble with it, no surprise since there's fewer places to hide and ambush
and as Getai I must say you can sometimes find good places to strike an ambush

bu tthe western hills and forests is where ambushing seems most likely

[Tellos Athenaios]

Ambush: useful! It offers my low-end armies the possibility of taking out enemy medium-high-end armies without suffering many casualties. Especially experienced slingers should prove useful ambushers.

There is a guide at how to ambush, written by k_raso somewhere in the Gameplay subforum...

[NeoSpartan]

Trick to get AI to walk to your ambushes is to use a bait. Just have your stack sitting in a wood and place a lonesome unit in a way that AI can see it and if it tries to attack it must move besides your stack thus triggering an ambush. If the ambush succeeds is of course purely based on luck.

U can also use this trick to separete 2 AI full stacks that you can't tackle with 1full stack (vh or h battle difficulty). One of them will chase the lonely unit and WAHM! Then u go after the other stack

-remember, Divide & Conquer.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Paraphrasing famous ancient words, always a bit of fun ...

[Sarkiss]

If the ambush succeeds is of course purely based on luck.

dont forget traits of your generals that increase chances of a successfull ambush.
i preferr to ambush an army of elite Seleucids with my lower quality Pontic, Armenian forces and if not succeeded in routin the entire enemy army than i'd withraw after significant casualties being inflicted. so the next time i meet the same army (usually attacking it myself next turn) it is half its initial strength and i have better chances of winning an open field battle with my inferiour troops

[NeoSpartan]

Paraphrasing famous ancient words, always a bit of fun ...

u dang right!



p.s there is a lot of "wisdom" in them, the problem comes in finding it and implementing it.

[Son of Perun]

I think ambush is a bit cowardly tactic, but it`s useful in desperate situations (Germans would never defeat roman legions on open field).

[Cybvep]

I think ambush is a bit cowardly tactic, but it`s useful in desperate situations (Germans would never defeat roman legions on open field).

It's not a cowardly tactic, it's just the useful one... Ambushes are the key to a successful guerilla warfare, and the guerilla warfare is one of the most effective and the longest of all "styles of war". It's as calling the Scythians and Sarmatians cowards - it's not cowardice, it's just pure tactics, and horse archers are IMO the most effective formation of the Antiquity and the Middle Ages. Look at the enemies of Rome - the ones who were experts in the guerilla warfare or based their strength on the horse archers were the ones who were the hardest to conquer (e.g. Iberians) or even were never conquered (e.g. Germans, Parthians).

[Karo]

Cybvep since when have Iberians or germans used horse archer tactics. Horse archers were used in the east and in the Steppes. Not in Iberia or germania.

[Cybvep]

Cybvep since when have Iberians or germans used horse archer tactics. Horse archers were used in the east and in the Steppes. Not in Iberia or germania.

It's the use of "or"...

Look at the enemies of Rome - the ones who were experts in the guerilla warfare or based their strength on the horse archers (...)

Sorry if that was unclear.

[Son of Perun]

It's not a cowardly tactic, it's just the useful one... Ambushes are the key to a successful guerilla warfare, and the guerilla warfare is one of the most effective and the longest of all "styles of war". It's as calling the Scythians and Sarmatians cowards - it's not cowardice, it's just pure tactics, and horse archers are IMO the most effective formation of the Antiquity and the Middle Ages. Look at the enemies of Rome - the ones who were experts in the guerilla warfare or based their strength on the horse archers were the ones who were the hardest to conquer (e.g. Iberians) or even were never conquered (e.g. Germans, Parthians).

You obviously don`t like word cowardly. But remember, that cowards are the ones who live longer. Bravery is very close to stupidity. The ones who invented ambush tactics weren`t brave heroes because brave heroes just run against the enemy and kill or let themselves killed. Abushes were invented by cowards who led heroes.

[Cybvep]

(...) But remember, that cowards are the ones who live longer. Bravery is very close to stupidity. (...)

I agree with this, to some extent... IMO "total cowardice" is as bad as "perfect bravery". The balance is the key.

[I Am Herenow]

Cowards are the ones who live longer.

Well, you could argue that, in fact, being heroic enough would make you "live" forever - rather like the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae - whom everyone remembers (even before 300), unlike the nameless, countless cowards of conflicts through the ages, who may well have gained an extra 20 or 30 or something years of life, but were forgotten afterwards.

But I digress.

I personally can never be bothered to set ambushes - but I never use forts and barely use watchtowers. I know I should, but, you know, meh.

Do soldiers get morale bonuses/penalties for setting successful ambushes/being ambushed?

[Ludens]

Well, you could argue that, in fact, being heroic enough would make you "live" forever - rather like the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae - whom everyone remembers (even before 300), unlike the nameless, countless cowards of conflicts through the ages, who may well have gained an extra 20 or 30 or something years of life, but were forgotten afterwards.

How about the 700 non-Spartan hoplites (not to mention the unknown number of helots) that also died at Thermopylae? Are they immortal as well? Or is their memory limited to those who study history?

[Son of Perun]

I agree with this, to some extent... IMO "total cowardice" is as bad as "perfect bravery". The balance is the key.

Yes, you are right.

in fact, being heroic enough would make you "live" forever

I can`t agree with you. Sometimes whole nations survived by beeing cowardly. If Slavs behaved like Spartans, a memory would be all what has left of them.

[Meothar]

My reinforcements sometimes get ambushed by Rebels, but I always withdraw in this case. If I set an ambush, it's most of the time when I want to hide a stack to not get involved in battles this turn, especially when there are many enemy armies in sight. This can be useful if you want to cross an area you have no interest in (yet).

[I Am Herenow]

How about the 700 non-Spartan hoplites (not to mention the unknown number of helots) that also died at Thermopylae? Are they immortal as well? Or is their memory limited to those who study history?

Well, the whole Spartan militaristic way of life was also a heroic/tough/whatever thing, making them seem "better" to the layman, and thus it was they that were remembered. As they were the elite, they were most famous.

Even today, there's an obsession with US Navy SEALs, the SAS and so on, as they're the elite - I don't think many people dream of joining the 182nd Light Infantry Division or whatever, unless they have some sort of connection to it (i.e. through family etc.).

[Sarkiss]

Bravery is very close to stupidity. The ones who invented ambush tactics weren`t brave heroes because brave heroes just run against the enemy and kill or let themselves killed. Abushes were invented by cowards who led heroes.

so according to you Hannibal, the farther of stratagem, who had guts to define Rome on Roman soil with a bunch of exhausted mercenaries, is a coward? Germans, who ambushed and slaughtered the entire Roman army and thus guaranteed their freedom are cowards too? and Suren, whos genius crashed Romans and stopped Roman expansion in the East, even though outnumbered 5:1 is a coward?