King of the Romans OOC thread XII

[AussieGiant]

Hi Econ,

Thanks for the information.

I've been one of the participants in the secuROM threads in the Citadel.

The version CA has used is certainly not as inhibiting as the one employed in Bioshock.

I wont have to deal with this until I get back so I'll put it on my list of things to update when I get back.

I agree that the PBM should use the latest patch...this one is just not a patch in reality

[Stig]

Stig: with RTW, I did a dual install just by installing, patching to 1.2 only, and using windows explorer to copy the entire RTW directory. I then patched the copy further, not the original. However, it is a fairly long process and takes a lot of space. I don't think I will bother doing it again. I will just uninstall/reinstall M2TW if Elberhard gets a battle; I have not seriously got into Kingdoms (too busy with Bioshock). I guess people with Kingdoms who don't want to do a dual install or a reinstall will have to be regarded as being off active duty until the next Diet.

Won't work for MTW2

I backed up MTW2 during 1.2 (working on a mod with some other guys). And those files are stored in the folder Backup, I can easely run that as a modfolder. Simply make a batfile and cfg file saying that it should start up from the folder Backup, but it still shows the version as 1.3

So it's either:
We patch for free (note: this patch does NOT change gameplay in anyway, so we wouldn't have to wait till a Diet Session).
Or about 5 of us won't be able to use something they payed 30 euro's for.

[TinCow]

For some odd reason, while getting ready for work this morning, I was thinking about the idea of the 'Catastrophic Event' for the 1320ish timeperiod. How about this:

Proto-Reformation

Alexander Luther (Ancestor of Martin Luther, known as "Lex" to his friends) is disgruntled with the changes in Christianity. He believes the Church is simply a puppet of the Holy Roman Empire and subject to its whims, rather than the teachings of Christ. He nails his 59 dissertations to the doors of Castle Church in Wittenberg. The contents of his writings rapidly spreads to all corners of the Reich.

A large segment of the common folk are sympathetic to his beliefs and dissent grows very rapidly. Riots break out in many cities; some buildings are burned down in many cities, including the magnificent Cathedral in Rome; the local garrisons and armies of the Reich are turned out to restore order; the mobs choose to fight and many soldiers are killed in the process; more soldiers either sympathize with the rioters or refuse to raise a hand against their own countrymen, resulting in mass desertion; eventually order is restored throughout the Reich, but some territories have been lost to active rebellion, some buildings have been destroyed in the remaining provinces, the armies and garrisons are massively reduced in size, and the Reich is unable to recruit more than one regiment per year per settlement for several turns.

[FactionHeir]

Interesting idea, but I'm not so sure why say half the regions would riot because the pope is a HRE puppet considering the people are all HRE and Outremer is there to protect the pope/christianity.
Besides, they probably are aware of the papal bulls we keep getting which threaten excom.

[TinCow]

Going by history, we can say that they are disgruntled by the granting of indulgences for monetary 'donations' to the Church. The rich can do as they please and go to heaven for a few florins, while the poor are doomed to hell because they cannot pay. The idea that the Pope is a HRE puppet only reinforces this, as the Reich's Electors are rich and powerful and are perceived to be bribing their way to heaven. Having the Pope under their sway is a way of assuring their salvation, no matter how heinous their sins.

As for the Papal Bull counter-argument, well, no one said that the conspiracy theory the mobs believe is actually true. Have a few charismatic rabble-rousers incite the mob with rhetoric and let them run wild. No one said muck-shoveling peasants were intelligent... Besides, this isn't the real Reformation. It is eventually completely suppressed and there is no split in the Church, so Lex Luther's arguments don't have to be too convincing. Hell, we can even make him an agent of that Pagan group, if we want.

[Tamur]

Sounds good to me. We do need some sort of a big shake-up to make things a bit more challenging. Maybe depopulation would solve the marriage crisis as well? I'm coming up on a low-Org-activity time once again (though not as gone as I was in June/July) so Fritz wouldn't mind dying in the catastrophe

[Stig]

Heh I would love to keep Ansehelm in Polish territory till then.
He finally comes back, marches into Thorn ... and gets attacked by an angry mob

[Stig]

OOC: As far as I know, banning extends to proxies.

This is correct, but Tamur does not let people speak for Fritz, I just states that someone runs of to tell Fritz something.
If that isn't even allowed, tssss.
Tamur might want to write a story and if he says Fritz has some info it would be nice to explain how he got it, and he did now.

[EternalOlympia]

*oops*

[Tamur]

So not only am I banned from the Diet, but anyone who speaks with me is as well? That seems exceedingly harsh. Thanks Stig, anyone else is free to clarify this as well.

[Ituralde]

No, only Fritz is banned. Can't ban all Franconian clerks, messengers, and what not.

[Privateerkev]

This is how I conceive of Diet banning:

When your banned, your banned. That means from the moment of banning, no posts at all in the Diet thread. None under your .org account. Which means no proxies, no retinue, no messengers. Econ has said he will back this up as a mod by deleting all posts by banned members that are made post-ban. This is to give the Kaiser some real power and instill an air of deference towards him. There is precedent for this with regards to Wolfgang's proxies.

Allowing proxies, retinue, and messengers undermines this power by using OOC limitations with regards to the web-board's mechanics to take IC advantage of something. What I mean by this is that I don't think Econ has an option that stops someone from posting in a thread, without making it blanket across the web-board. So, OOC, you can keep posting all through the ban and Econ would have to delete one by one. So, we seem to have an OOC agreement to not post in the Diet thread as long as the avatar is banned. This keeps the atmosphere of a banning alive and keeps Econ from having to delete posts.

As for what happens in the Diet, that is public knowledge as far as I know. As an elector, you can access the scribes and read the transcripts. So, while banned, you still know what happens in the Diet, you just can not communicate with the Diet at all.

Unless you get another elector to agree to voice a message to the Diet on your behalf. Though, the elector might want to think twice about that one. But thats more of a political consideration.

Again, these are just my thoughts on the matter. If someone else has different ideas or if Econ wants to weigh in, feel free.

[Stuperman]

battle stats for OK. Got a new nickname too...went from 'the honorable' to 'the merciless'.....quite a swing in personality

[Stig]

For god's sake PK, Fritz did NOT speak in the Diet. Tamur only made a post there.

Sides as Ituralde just said only (read: O.N.L.Y.) Fritz is banned

[Privateerkev]

calm down. I grow tired of your inflammatory language towards me. I will not allow your temper tantrums to influence me from speaking my mind in this thread.

As far as I know, banning means the player can not post in the Diet thread until:

a.) the banning is lifted
b.) the Kaiser dies
c.) the banned elector dies or is abandoned by the player.

Otherwise, banning is effectively useless if we allow the player to keep posting in the Diet thread with proxies, messengers, and retinue.

[TinCow]

The Kaiser is responsible for maintaining order in the Diet. Whatever he says goes. If he says only Fritz is banned, then only Fritz is banned. If he says Fritz, his messengers, his scribes, his mother, his dog, his ocelot, and his hair lice are banned, then they are banned too. Don't piss off the Kaiser.

[Privateerkev]

Thats a good point TC. Since the Kaiser didn't specify that IC, I was going by the "Wolfgang precedent". But, its clear now.

[Tamur]

Ah. So a Diet ban is actually an out-of-character ban, barring the real player from posting anything whatsoever in the thread called "Imperial Diet".

Where was that line between IC and OOC again?

[Privateerkev]

As TC said, it seems to be the whim of the Kaiser. His powers over the Diet are vast and he seems to be able to set the limits as to how broad the banning is. I was not clear on what limits the Kaiser had set for Fritz so I was IC assuming a more broad definition due to precedent. But, it seems that the Kaiser's ban was more narrow than I thought. So, as far as I know, Fritz can send people into the Diet.

*edit*

Can't ban all Franconian clerks, messengers, and what not.

Well, technically the Kaiser could. There might be political consequences but he could do it. The Kaiser could technically ban everyone from the Diet if he chose. That would be interesting... :D

[Tamur]

Missed that as I was posting. Good, glad to hear I personally haven't been banned. I don't handle banning well. I don't think. Though I've never tried it. Hmm.

*runs off to see if Tosa can ban him for a few hours for fun*

[Ituralde]

I'm sorry, if I caused some confusion with my statement. I thought about clarifying it, but hoped it wouldn't be necessary. In the end all of you are right and I did not plan to put this down to the whims of Siegfried.

Ftiz von Kastilien is banned IC from the Diet. This means that neither he can speak nor any messages from him will be read. If a messenger starts proclaiming stuff in the name of Fritz, he will not be heard, just to clarify that for the future. In that way the ban does extend towards proxies, as PK has shown.

However, as all others have also rightfully mentionend the ban is IC. Tamur is not banned from the Diet thread. Considering the Diet is an IC thread and thus Tamur can't make any OOC comments there, his options are quite scarce. The only thing his posts can achieve then, is to try to add some flavour to the Diet. His post is the only way I can think they could even work, to be honest.

I believe everyone here understands what a banning from the Diet involves, and no one has crossed that line. Let's not blow this whole thing out of proportion. If Tamur had Fritz speak in his recent post, econ21 would surely have deleted it. Nothing has happened, I think we can just move on with our regular posting.

[Ferret]

Sorry Sstig but where did you announce your female heir because I'm stuggling to have an argument when I don't actually know what I'm talking about lol

[Privateerkev]

Ansehelm announced it in the Diet. I can't stress how much of a legal bomb this potentially is. Prince Elberhard just got an IC letter chock full of legal questions that should send his lawyers and scribes into catatonic shock for weeks.

[AussieGiant]

[TevashSzat]

I just dled the save, but due to school and what not, I can only fight it tomorrow afternoon so dont expect me to post the save until like late tomorrow night.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I think OK's rule is don't dl the save unless you can play it immediately.

[FactionHeir]

I think Xdeathfire can only dl saves at school and play them at home or so.

[Warluster]

HI all, just got back from the camping trip. SO I can fight any battles. But just gots wasitname exp so will off fpor a while...

btw, I am rather ashamed to see only 3 more pages in this thread after 4 days!

[Tamur]

I got lost in the discussion... are we patching to 1.3 via the links that Stig provided, or are we staying with 1.2 until we get some kind of an official 1.3 patch?

[FactionHeir]

The link is the official 1.3 patch.
And for the moment, I believe the sentiment is to wait till the next diet or so.

Anyone else feel really bored these days?