Kingdoms SecuRom discussion - forum rules only

[Zenicetus]

Yep, that's why I started the thread with the "forum rules only" suffix, after the first one was shut down. So please avoid any reference to cracked games.

This is an important issue that's causing many of us to boycott Kingdoms unless CA/Sega does the right thing... the enterpretation of which varies, but for me, the minimum is removing the SecureRom garbage after I uninstall the game. I can live with it up to that point, but it's insane that I'd have to live with it after I uninstall the game.

At this point, the official silence has lasted long enough that we can probably assume what the answer is. But I'd like to hold out a little hope that they'd come through... if for no other reason than it will make many of us less wary about pre-ordering Empire. I'm definitely not doing that now, without knowing in advance what the CP method is.

[Meneldil]

What a bunch of , I'm glad I haven't be offered Kingdoms for my birthday.

As it stands now, I won't buy any other TW game, plain and simple.

And here I was hoping video game companies would have gotten a clue after the failure that was Starforce...

[TinCow]

As the above posters have stated, the thread has remained open because the posters have refrained from making comments about software piracy. Please keep it that way.

[Niterider613]

All I can say is I bought Kingdoms and I love it. I have had no problems. I also own Neverwinter Nights 2 so I guess this secu thing was already on my computer before I put Kingdoms on. I love the Total War games and will keep buying them. I do think they should patch Kingdoms though. I hope it happens.

[Redz " Preatorian Knights"]

wat a great say(daveybaby).... my wife had already send me my copy of mtw nd kngdoms(from philippines to nigeria), and now wid all this i dnt know if i wuld be xcited or not... securom?wat... mins d money i earned for my overtymn wuld be wasted as i dnt know now if i wuld install dis wid my laptop!!!


well..... men it wuld take a lot of courage anyway if i wont try 2 install it cuz if nd wen those cds cums 2 my hand.. the hell wid securom.... CHARGE ND INSTALL!!!!!!

[TinCow]

Again, I think it's important to emphasize that, as far as I am aware, there has not been a single reported problem as a result of installing Kingdoms. The debate in this thread is largely about boycotting the expansion due to the trend towards invasive and illegal copy protection, not due to potential harm to your system.

[Mouzafphaerre]

Again, I think it's important to emphasize that, as far as I am aware, there has not been a single reported problem as a result of installing Kingdoms. The debate in this thread is largely about boycotting the expansion due to the trend towards invasive and illegal copy protection, not due to potential harm to your system.

.
With all due respect, that's a contradicting statement. Something potentially harmful is harmful, whether it has harmed yet or not. Also, not a single problem reported does not mean that not a single problem occurred: problems may not have been detected; may not have been associated with the malware; or may not have been reported.

It's like saying "I got the Chernobyl virus but my computer is intact because it's not April yet".
.

[Zenicetus]

Again, I think it's important to emphasize that, as far as I am aware, there has not been a single reported problem as a result of installing Kingdoms. The debate in this thread is largely about boycotting the expansion due to the trend towards invasive and illegal copy protection, not due to potential harm to your system.

I have one game that uses this same version of SecureRom (Bioshock). I've already had to flag off that directory for my backup software, because it throws up a flag when I try to run it. That's my personal time that I have to burn, to deal with something that will be left behind by a stupid game. And those files will never go away unless I reformat my C: drive. If I buy Kingdoms and uninstall the game, those files will still be there, causing potential problems in the future. Who knows what might happen with the next anti-virus or anti-malware progam I install, that flags intrusive, hidden files like this? I've been burned once by Bioshock, I'm not going to be burned a second time by Kingdoms, which isn't even a full game like Bioshock, just a minor expansion.

TinCow, you really don't get it, do you? When did we get to the point where we uninstall a game, and the game doesn't completely uninstall, and that's suddenly "okay" with the gaming community?

How closely do you monitor invasive apps on your system?

[Ramses II CP]

Let's not lose sight of Sony's DRM history either. As best I can recall it was just over a year before people proved the link between 'XCP' and the sometimes severe problems with their machines. Kingdoms and this version of SecuRom are still very early in their life cycles, and there are a substantial number of reported problems with similar SecuRom installs from other games.

Problems which, of course, don't go away if you uninstall the game.

[TinCow]

TinCow, you really don't get it, do you? When did we get to the point where we uninstall a game, and the game doesn't completely uninstall, and that's suddenly "okay" with the gaming community?

How closely do you monitor invasive apps on your system?

I own Bioshock, therefore I do get it. I have personally had problems with the Bioshock copy protection system and it was very annoying. I was simply trying to cool down some misinformation that seems to have popped up in this thread.

And please... don't attempt to play me off as some kind of CA apologist on this. Anyone who has read this thread knows that I am very much opposed to SecuROM and have personally boycotted Kingdoms because of it.

[LadyAnn]

Huh? I just bought Kingdom. Should I returned it? I am confused... let me read this long thread again...

[econ21]

Huh? I just bought Kingdom. Should I returned it? I am confused... let me read this long thread again...

Do you have Bioshock, Neverwinternights 2 or some other game with SecuRom? If you do, I would not worry about returning Kingdoms as apparently they will already have installed SecuRom on your computer.

If you don't, it's up to you. But nothing I have read has given me any concern about SecuRom.

[sapi]

Nor me. But some feel that it's an issue; I work under the assumption that I'd have reformatted before it became a problem, anyway

[crpcarrot]

i suprised anyone cn be so unconcerned about somehting u dont have control over on your own pc. specially something that soemelse can take control over without your knowlege.

the fact that i use my pc for my personal finances just makes it impossible for me to even consider having securom on my pc.

also the fact that it can messup other games i buy in the future is a huge discentive for me. why would i compromise my pc knowingly in anyway? especially for something i have paid for legitimately. its just does not make sense.

[LadyAnn]

I made a decision. I'll install it on my gaming computer, and be ready to reformat the disk if any supicion of malware pops up.

I'll trust my anti-virus/anti-spyware to do the job of alerting me of any thread.

Annie

[crpcarrot]

i think thats where the problem comes in. since securom is not a virus anti-virus software will be programmed to ignore the hidden folder created by scurom. the ideal situation for anyone with malicious intent.

however if u have a seperate gaming pc i guess it doesnt really matter but since i dont have one it does.

[drone]

After years of Sony treating customers badly, culminating with the CD rootkit, I decided to boycott Sony. No TVs, stereo equipment, DVD players, CDs, etc. I used to buy a lot of their stuff, but no longer. It's tough to keep track of everything, but I do give it a try. Since Sony probably gets a portion of each sale of SecuRom infested software, so sorry, no Kingdoms for me. Hopefully the combined "platinum edition" or whatever they decide to call it will be without it.

[AntiochusIII]

however if u have a seperate gaming pc i guess it doesnt really matter but since i dont have one it does.

Well, yes. That's the core of the problem, outside of the issue of principles (which by the way I'm firmly on the go-to-hell-you-corporate-scums side, or more politely the Consumer's Rights/Privacy side). If you do not use your gaming rig for business purposes or e-mail that relates to said purposes, you run much less risk with SecuRom than someone who does, and if you love the title then Kingdoms is probably worth it.

If you check your credit card account everyday online with that computer though...I'd rather be wary. There are no reported problems as such, but considering the amount of traffic in the internet, the percentage of said traffic that is either spam or simply malicious, and the fact that these programs go on great lengths to avoid detection by your anti-virus and anti-spyware programs...

There are other potential problems as well -- I think someone mentioned a case earlier in this thread where his online game can't be played anymore and that he suspects Kingdoms' SecuRom to be behind it, but the poster never came back to report on more of his findings, so there is no conclusive evidence that it's at fault. Whacker also mentioned above that SecuRom conflicts with some SafeDisc versions, though since I never tested it myself I do not know if this particular version also does.

Now of course, I use Daemon Tools, so me and these kinds of programs have a rather stormy relationship. A lot of them seem to think that the only use of Daemon Tools is to read downloaded pirated copies of disk images... I sort of went screw them I do other things with the program and googled my way out.

Anyway, since I think I'll be able to get some extra money this month and is looking to buy M2TW; a question: Does the 1.3 patch really comes with parts of the SecuRom malware? If yes, are they "active" or just useless unimplemented code?

[Whacker]

Whacker also mentioned above that SecuRom conflicts with some SafeDisc versions, though since I never tested it myself I do not know if this particular version also does.

Hello sir. Securom v7, which is what's been in use for some time now, can and does cause conflicts with other software DRM methods, so yes, this will cause problems for certain games. Safedisc v2/3/4 is just one of a few that are known to conflict.

Now of course, I use Daemon Tools, so me and these kinds of programs have a rather stormy relationship. A lot of them seem to think that the only use of Daemon Tools is to read downloaded pirated copies of disk images... I sort of went screw them I do other things with the program and googled my way out.

Well of course. Only dirty pirates and thieves use programs like p2p sharing and disc emulation!! They have absolutely NO redeeming value whatsoever and serve as nothing but tools for piracy! Geez, get with the times!

Anyway, since I think I'll be able to get some extra money this month and is looking to buy M2TW; a question: Does the 1.3 patch really comes with parts of the SecuRom malware? If yes, are they "active" or just useless unimplemented code?

I *believe* that it installs Securom software, but can't be positive. I can state for a fact that it does install the "undeleteable" files and null registry keys, based on some testing a friend did.

[AntiochusIII]

Hello sir. Securom v7, which is what's been in use for some time now, can and does cause conflicts with other software DRM methods, so yes, this will cause problems for certain games. Safedisc v2/3/4 is just one of a few that are known to conflict.

I *believe* that it installs Securom software, but can't be positive. I can state for a fact that it does install the "undeleteable" files and null registry keys, based on some testing a friend did.

Ouch.

Thank you very much for your comments...I guess I'll have to put off getting M2TW for now then :/ If it's just SafeDisc I'm fine with, but I really don't like SecuRom. Just about the only undeleteable registry I'll willingly accept is the Mount & Blade key and other similar unobtrusive ones.

What's with adding a new copy-protection program on a patch anyway.

[hellenes]

Ive removed Securom with just 2 steps in 5 seconds...while Kingdoms is still working fine...dont ask me how i did it thats why god created google...

[Zenicetus]

Anyway, since I think I'll be able to get some extra money this month and is looking to buy M2TW; a question: Does the 1.3 patch really comes with parts of the SecuRom malware? If yes, are they "active" or just useless unimplemented code?

You can buy M2TW and just patch up to the last version 1.2 (assuming that's still available?), avoiding the 1.3 patch. As far as I know, 1.3 only adds multiplayer version compatibility with players who bought Kingdoms, and doesn't do anything at all to patch up or improve the original game. You can find mods that rebalance the 1.2 main game like Kingdoms, if you want that.

I still play the main campaign in M2TW without those mods, and without Kingdoms. That's a "clean" install, compared to what came later with the invasive DRM on the Kingdoms expansion.

[hellenes]

You can buy M2TW and just patch up to the last version 1.2 (assuming that's still available?), avoiding the 1.3 patch. As far as I know, 1.3 only adds multiplayer version compatibility with players who bought Kingdoms, and doesn't do anything at all to patch up or improve the original game. You can find mods that rebalance the 1.2 main game like Kingdoms, if you want that.

I still play the main campaign in M2TW without those mods, and without Kingdoms. That's a "clean" install, compared to what came later with the invasive DRM on the Kingdoms expansion.

The most satisfying thing is running Kingdoms without this DRM....

[AntiochusIII]

You can buy M2TW and just patch up to the last version 1.2 (assuming that's still available?), avoiding the 1.3 patch. As far as I know, 1.3 only adds multiplayer version compatibility with players who bought Kingdoms, and doesn't do anything at all to patch up or improve the original game. You can find mods that rebalance the 1.2 main game like Kingdoms, if you want that.

I still play the main campaign in M2TW without those mods, and without Kingdoms. That's a "clean" install, compared to what came later with the invasive DRM on the Kingdoms expansion.

Ah, so that explains it -- may be the SecuRom addition is supposed to align M2TW vanilla with Kingdoms somehow? Hmm...I guess I'll reconsider buying M2TW after all (lol @ my own indecision). If the 1.3 patch is just multiplayer then I can do without it; I'm a single-player guy all the way so that doesn't matter in the least.

[impar]

Greetings!

Ive removed Securom with just 2 steps in 5 seconds...while Kingdoms is still working fine...dont ask me how i did it thats why god created google...

Check to see if Securom hasnt reinstalled by itself again...

[Didz]

The key concern I have about Securom is:

a) Sony are offering a chargeable expansion of Securom to its customers which will by-pass their customers computer security system to gather data on the use of a copmuter for 'marketing purposes'.

b) The above feature is sold as a toolkit allowing Sony's customers to program their own criteria for gethering this data, which may also allow other executable packages to be imbedded in the code.

This means that even if we were willing to have our use of our PC monitored and analysed by legimate Sony customers we also have to consider the possibility that any of said customers could employ a rogue employee who will use Securom for their own ends, or that internal software security at Sony or any of its customers who buy the toolkit might be lax enough to allow the toolkit to leak out into the wider hacking community and become a vehicle for virus programmers and hackers.

[hellenes]

Greetings!Check to see if Securom hasnt reinstalled by itself again...

Nope doest reistall Ive taken care of that...

[centurie]

some of you people make me sick.............have you not noticed the state of pc gaming this last year or so???games are being released with so many bugs that many are unplayerable.
i have just returned to playing M2TW because my old pc found it a struggle, now that i have a high end pc i can now play this everything maxed out, and i have to say it looks and playes fantastic.

Now what does this have to do with this thread....well due to games being jack sparrowed games developers are just throwing out un-optimised games without bothering to spend the time makeing them good.securom is not to stop the jack sparrows but to stop the casual player lending games to friends and using simple dvd copy software from copying the games.

i have never had any problems with securom i don't use daemon tools or anything like that so its never been a problem for me.

if you people keep going on about boycotting games , then in the end you will not have any games to boycott, i was looking farward to three new titles this year........kingdoms.............empire earth 3 and opposing fronts.

i only purchased kingdoms because the other two were nothing short of a rushed mess........many people like me own £1000s of pounds worth of pc hardware only to play crap pc games, the total war series is one of the exceptions that makes pc's worth the price............

so i say too you , go ahead and boycott because in the end when good game developers give it up for the console market you will have nothing left to boycott.

and one more thing........deamon tools .game jackal ..alchole 120.......are all legal but we all know they are used by jack sparrows.......so if securerom stops them working all well and good. just because you have legal software does not make it right. its legal to marry someone for his or her monet ,devorce them then gain half there wealth.........its legal but wrong.
i say anyone who uses that software are using it to pirate games.

i will be buying every expansion that comes from this series..i will always support a good company who makes great products...without them the pc as a gaming platform will go under.

[marrow]

Dear oh dear, where to start...
Do you not find that the whole idea of gamers spending their money to buy botched and half-baked games just for the sake of the industry self-perpetuating itself into worse and worse state (uff...) is a bit strange?
The money is there and will be, PC gaming marke is still big and I say that keeping companies releasing games afloat just for the sake of the PC gaming market is a big misunderstanding. It's THEM who should strive to deliver US good products, not US begging THEM to give us anything, however terrible it turns out to be; that's how market works mate. Following your logic in a few years' time publishers won't even bother finishing games at all, cos people like yourself will buy them on principle.

Secondly - assuming that every gamer who uses daemon tools is a thief is like assuming that everyone who owns a gun is a potential murderer, or everyone who drives is a hazard on the road. Why don't we start imposing sanctions upon motorists just because they are a potential danger to our kids? Are you feeling ok mate? I have put substantial amounts of money into games and gaming gear over the years and I feel outraged to be treated like a kid by people who happily break the law themselves (SONY), I feel humiliated to be lectured to by people who don't respect me or the law.

OK, rant's over, sorry if it was a little long. 'spect

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
First the EB2 board and then this. If weren't sure of CA guys' honesty, who have been honourable ORGahs ever since, I would suspect that somebody was encouraging them to play the fanboy and insult the fans.
.