KotR cataclysmic event discussion thread

[Ituralde]

I am completely in favour of this. I have to stress that from my past experiences there wouldn't be a lot of people I would trust with pulling this through, but TinCow and econ21 are definetly among them. The vote will get a yes for me.

As to the concerns Stig, voiced. I agree with you completely. It's a frightening thing to give the game away and loose all control over it. Like AussieGiant said it really is a leap of faith. It is necessary though, because otherwise an implementation of it would be either impossible or just simply boring.

If every action gets decided OOC, before it is implemented IC in every detail, the OOC discussions will just get tremendous. Votings will bog the game down, as every little piece has to be disected and voted on. Furthermore, while the timeline you suggest would certainly be fun, the specifics of it won't be. Having an argument in the Diet whose outcome is pretty much predetermined looses much of its appeal. Instead of creating excitement it would create boredom, as everyone would just be going through the motions.

For this to be pulled off, I think there is no other way as to giving one player complete control. Otherwise it just won't work and that's what this poll is for.

There's also another thing that has not been touched upon. While TinCow plans to orchestrate this whole thing, I don't think he wants his actions to reflect directly on Lothar. So while the Reich goes to ruins, this will be because of outside influence, not because of an incompetent Chancellor, who would surely be stopped by impeachment. I hope everyone understands the last part and acts accordingly should the event occur. And for those afraid of the consequences, TinCow and econ21 have always shown that they are ready to listen to people, and they will definetly do this during the catastrophe. Trust them, I do!

[Warmaster Horus]

I'm all for it. I also trust TC and econ21 to make as much chaos as possible, while keeping it fun for the players involved.

[Stig]

You'll always get a new one at some point.

That's the point, I've put so many hours into Ansehelm that I don't want a new one if I can make sure Ansehelm survives

he way we are working on it now, a third party character, not controlled by anyone, will be 'responsible' for the actions that spark the crisis.

Don't like that, I'd rather have an avatar who gets responsible for this.

[TinCow]

Hmmm the way I understood it:
1300-1320 Ituralde
1320-1360 TinCow

I will be playing a 10 turn Chancellorship, like normal, so that would be 1320-1340. The crisis that sparks the event will develop during Ituralde's term and probably begin shortly before the end. Once the first few basic moves have been made, I will take over and the effects of the earlier actions will be implemented.

That's the point, I've put so many hours into Ansehelm that I don't want a new one if I can make sure Ansehelm survives

I promise you that no avatar will die unless you make the choice to place yourself in danger. If you want to play it safe until things cool down and rebuilding begins, I will guarantee your survival.

Don't like that, I'd rather have an avatar who gets responsible for this.

I'm sorry, but I am not going to write a story where Lothar destroys the Reich. The actions that we are planning cannot possibly fit into the character I have created for him. You are not aware of everything that goes on in his life, but he believes himself to be a defender of the Reich, not an evil man. I don't see why I should have to destroy my avatar simply because I have volunteered to engineer this event for the benefit of all the players. Just as you are fond of Ansehelm, I am fond of Lothar and I do not want to see him wrecked. If you want to blame him for the events that happen under his watch, feel free. He is more than capable of responding to slander. However, I simply will not use a plot that makes him the arch-villain of the Reich.

[econ21]

I don't see why I should have to destroy my avatar simply because I have volunteered to engineer this event for the benefit of all the players.

On the other hand, if anyone does want to destroy their avatar helping to engineer this event - do PM TinCow or I. I am sure together we can work you into the story.

More generally, we will provide opportunities for players to shape events - either suggesting general ideas to us OOC; or, when the time comes, organising things in the Diet, in their Houses or providing specific instructions for how their characters will react. We've had some interesting PMs already that we are digesting. And when the event comes, you will not be passive spectators, but will be able to affect how it plays out - probably in ways we can't anticipate.

Hopefully when this takes off, it will spark lots of stories, speeches and side-plots, like the Civil War in WotS.

[FactionHeir]

Hmm maybe Wolfgang wants to run the empire in Lothar's stead? He is very accountable and reliable

[edit]
Just saw econ's post.
Actually, I wouldn't mind having a somewhat disgruntled Hans (depends on the next diet and the one after of course) becoming a villain later on.

[Tamur]

I'm most interested to see how the Houses react to this... Crisis points in history generally lead to the resolution of problems that are completely unrelated to the catastrophe -- the 12th & 13th century plagues, for example, lead to a massive increase in trade due to inheritances and general democratisation of the field.

I have a feeling some of the difficult questions of recent years will be solved rather permanently.

[TinCow]

I'm most interested to see how the Houses react to this... Crisis points in history generally lead to the resolution of problems that are completely unrelated to the catastrophe -- the 12th & 13th century plagues, for example, lead to a massive increase in trade due to inheritances and general democratisation of the field.

I have a feeling some of the difficult questions of recent years will be solved rather permanently.

I am very curious as well. It's entirely possible that the crisis could unite the Houses (and Outremer) and have them cooperating on a level never before seen. At the same time, with the extreme pressure on all fronts and insufficient resources to meet all needs, it's also possible that the fractures will become even greater as the Houses squabble to seize whatever resources they can to save themselves.

This is more of a communications logistics question.

I'd like to work out a way to keep separate TC's IC and OOC actions. The things he would have to do OOC to engineer this, are things we would gut a person IC for doing normally.

I am planning a three tiered system to inform you IC what is going on. Anything that I do not list IC can be assumed to be due to OOC actions and should thus be ignored. The system will be as such:

First, major phases or events will be introduced with a story in the Story thread. These will give background and a plot about what is happening and why. I expect somewhere in the region of 3 to 5 of these during my term, depending on the plot that is chosen.

Second, every game turn will use a modified system of the battle-list postings that Chancellors have been making in the OOC thread for some time. This will include the current status of each avatar in the game, a brief description of the challenges they find themselves in, and a short multiple choice description of possible actions. These multiple choice descriptions will not be definitive by any means, they will merely provide examples of options that are open to you. For example:

Johnny von Hindenburg:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You are the Count of Pfarphenplatz. The city is rioting and half of the garrison has been killed or deserted. You have two groups of knights with you and a large Polish army is nearby. There is no way to hire mercenaries or recruit new garrison units.

(A) Garrison Pfarphenplatz with your knights and attempt to restore order and hold the city.
(B) Ride to Pfarphenplatz and rescue the garrison before they are overwhelmed, then attempt to flee to the safety of Somewhatnearbyville. This will slow you down and you may be caught in the field by the Polish army.
(C) Abandon Pfarphenplatz and ride immediately for Somewhatnearbyville.

People may tell me they want to follow one of these paths or give a path of their own. If a person gives me no information for a particular turn, I will always choose the path that I deem to be best for keeping them alive. If an avatar's situation has not changed much from before, I will likely not give any info on them or simply write a "Proceeding as before" type note. Please note that since I cannot find a way to control the enemy AI, I will sometimes artificially create battles for you. Thus, if in the above example you chose (B) but the AI did not attack you and I want it to, I will move the Polish army near you and have you attack it. Even though the battle will be setup as you attacking, it will be roleplayed as a defensive battle and you will still have to fight it.

Also, the results of every action will not be guaranteed. If you chose (B) you could be attacked in the field, but you could also get lucky and escape without a battle. If you chose (A) you could be successful and restore order, perhaps opening up a new possibility to recruit one new garrison regiment. On the otherhand, you could fail to restore order, and rioting could continue, resulting in the destruction of a further garrison regiment and one of your knight regiments. I will be using a combination of factors to determine the results, including your character traits (i.e. avatars with "popular" traits will have a better chance at restoring order than ones with "unpopular" traits), the arrangement of the armies and the Reich, and my own imagination. I am even toying with the idea of actually rolling a die to determine the result (i.e. "unpopular" avatar succeeds in restoring order on a 1 or 2 on a d6. "popular" avatar suceeds in restoring order on a 1 to 4 on a d6). econ21 did something similar to this with the WOTS Civil War battles and it was excellent.

Finally, the last area will be Chancellor's reports. These will be the only real interaction Lothar has with the game. I will summarize any previous events of significance not covered by the previous areas here. This will also be where Lothar's decisions about how to allocate resources will be made. I do not anticipate there being many resources available to allocate for the majority of the event, so the decisions Lothar has to make will likely be minimal and infrequent. I want to concentrate mainly on the story (the first section) and the 'choose your own adventure' style actions for the players (the second section) rather than a traditional Chancellorship.

[Privateerkev]

This is more of a communications logistics question.

I'd like to work out a way to keep separate TC's IC and OOC actions. The things he would have to do OOC to engineer this, are things we would gut a person IC for doing normally. I still want Jan to interact with Lothar IC but I don't want to be nailing him for things that are completely OOC like how TC is planning to engineer rebellions. I check the save game at least once a turn. Normally, if I see a city in red face or an army is moved somewhere I don't want, I PM the Chancellor IC and ask for things to be changed.

I guess the point is, there will be things happening that we need to pretend aren't happening. Like, tax levels, capital placement, army composition, and the like. I want to know which of these things to ignore and which to take up with Lothar IC.

I'm assuming through all of this that Lothar will very much be trying to run things as Chancellor and I would like to have Jan interact with him IC. In the meantime, I understand that there will be a lot going on OOC in order to bring about IC effects and I don't want to accidentally confuse the two.

[TinCow]

There's also another thing that has not been touched upon. While TinCow plans to orchestrate this whole thing, I don't think he wants his actions to reflect directly on Lothar. So while the Reich goes to ruins, this will be because of outside influence, not because of an incompetent Chancellor, who would surely be stopped by impeachment. I hope everyone understands the last part and acts accordingly should the event occur.

Yes, this will not be "Lothar Gone Wild!" For most of it, I will simply be the 'narrator' telling a story about what is happening to the Reich. The way we are working on it now, a third party character, not controlled by anyone, will be 'responsible' for the actions that spark the crisis. Perhaps Lothar will take over the Chancellorship after that, perhaps not, but even if he does the majority of what happens will be beyond his control.

[FactionHeir]

Perhaps Lothar will take over the Chancellorship after that

Now that would be Steffen Gone Wild. (Assuming you meant consecutive)

[TinCow]

No, the next Chancellorship will definitely be Siegfried's.

[FactionHeir]

Hmmm the way I understood it:
1300-1320 Ituralde
1320-1360 TinCow