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  1. #1

    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    If they guy had physically stopped another person from using the mike, pushed them away or made threats then I can see cops stepping in.

    I think it is overzealous if the guy is asking more questions (be they conspiracy theory or legit).
    I was just at a conference where John Kerry was the speaker. During the Q&A section, a hyperactive young man grabbed the microphone while someone else was asking a question, proclaiming that he would like to ask a question. The leader of the conference just announced 5 minutes before that the current person asking a question was to be the last person to ask a question. The hyperactive young man was being forced by the police to leave the building. During this dramatized event, John Kerry said to the security to let him ask the question, but first let him finish with the current one being asked. The police respected John Kerry’s request but stood very closely to the young man.
    From a firsthand account on facebook.

    Isn't touching someone without their consent assault?
    No...

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadKill
    Exactly what my point is, if wasn't going towards the election dude and pointing a knife at him, do you seriously need freak'n 5 officers ontop of him, screaming at him, hurting him, and even result to tazing. Arresting someone because he refused to leave without his question being answered. I thought the US would do anything, like sacraficing lives to find freedom, while they can't even complete such a simple task in their own soceity.

    I'm not flaming Americans here, but like thats just disturbing.
    How do you know he didn't have a knife? Police are trained to do that for a reason.
    Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 09-19-2007 at 00:58.

  2. #2
    Member Member RoadKill's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Sasaki, touching anyone without permission, is considered assult. It is only not considered assult if the person has commited some type of illegal crime, and then the police are allowed to do it.

    If taking a mic as you say, caused him to be arrested and tazed, then wow, he would probally be shot if he actually stole something. ( I unno about the US, but I'm pretty sure the cops arn't allowed to randomly shoot people, or even taze them in Canada)
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  3. #3

    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadKill
    Sasaki, touching anyone without permission, is considered assult. It is only not considered assult if the person has commited some type of illegal crime, and then the police are allowed to do it.

    If taking a mic as you say, caused him to be arrested and tazed, then wow, he would probally be shot if he actually stole something. ( I unno about the US, but I'm pretty sure the cops arn't allowed to randomly shoot people, or even taze them in Canada)
    This is simply not true. Touching someone without permission is in no way assault. Violence or intent to harm is required. I can't believe two people have said this. Do the police and bouncers where your from use jedi mind tricks to get people to leave? Hypnosis maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by gainesville sun
    One of the many videos circulating of a University of Florida student being Tasered by police was shot with the student's own camera.
    Continue to 2nd paragraph

    Clarissa Jessup, who was standing near Adam Meyer just before UF Police took him into custody during U.S. Sen. John Kerry's speech at UF, said Meyer asked her to film him asking Kerry a question just before he approached the microphone.
    Funny.

    On the other hand, police in general seem a bit quick to use "non-lethal" weapons whenever someone resists arrest, imo. Yeah, he was struggling and making a scene, but he wasn't posing a threat to anyone- was the tazer absolutely necessary, or just more convenient?
    Not entirely sure here, but the point of tazering is to prevent injury to both officers and the person being arrested...bodily carrying him out may have resulted in both pain and injury.
    Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 09-19-2007 at 01:12.

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    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadKill
    ( I dunno about the US, but I'm pretty sure the cops arn't allowed to randomly shoot people, or even taze them in Canada)
    They are in Montreal, especially if you're black. (That's what the cops say, anyway.)
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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Anyone who finds this funny or amusing is disgusting. This is an affront to democracy and civil liberties. The young man was merely asking a question which the politician refused to answer, which, incidentally was about how Kerry won the 2004 election and thousands of voters were defrauded.

    The police resorting to violence to subdue him when he did nothing wrong is compeltely outrageous. You dont have to listen to a police officer if youre not doing anything wrong. He should sue the university for everything they're worth.


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    Professional Cynic Member Innocentius's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    That's horrible. Of course, the sadist in me consider this video funny in a way (like "cat gets caught in a fan"), but there's nothing that can justify the way the cops acted. Police brutality, and the guy wasn't even black! Yay!
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    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    It seems some people aren't reading the updates but merely post 1 before commenting...

    Anyway. Having read the reports, there is no doubt that he wanted to be arrested and cause a commotion to promote himself and his website (the link to which was posted in pretty much every news article I read about it). Considering he even asked another person to film him right before he went to stage and was completely calm/compliant when out of camera just proves this.
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir
    Anyway. Having read the reports, there is no doubt that he wanted to be arrested and cause a commotion to promote himself and his website (the link to which was posted in pretty much every news article I read about it). Considering he even asked another person to film him right before he went to stage and was completely calm/compliant when out of camera just proves this.
    And the little pain in the ass is probably going to get rich from this too.

    I'm still not certain that it was necessary to tazer him, but I do certainly hope they throw the book at him and charge him with every applicable offense that they can. Disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, trespassing, possibly assault, ect.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Depends on your standard for the employment of force.

    If you believe that police force is justified only if there exists a credible threat of grievous bodily harm (bumps, bruises, and/or a broken finger would not count) to the officers, suspect, or bystanders; then you may view this as unwarranted. You can make a credible argument that no serious physical harm was likely to occur.

    If you believe that police force is justified whenever the threat of harm exists to officers, suspect, or bystanders, they you would probably condone this use of force here.


    Police in the USA are allowed to use force to restrain a subject who resists arrest. They are supposed to be judicious in the amount of force used so as to minimize the potential of escalating violence and thereby increasing the risk to bystanders, suspect or themselves. Mirandizing a suspect is a necessary step prior to questioning that suspect, it is not required before an arrest is made. Police are expected to warn a suspect that violence will be used if the threatening behavior is not stopped.


    All it will take to file a lawsuit on this matter is the required filing fee. Whether or not the case is tossed immediately or allowed to proceed will probably depend on the attitude of the judge. No appellate court will see anything "new" here that would require an appeals ruling.



    Zak':

    Voter fraud and voting mistakes occur in every election. For the most part, research indicates that it occurs at a fairly low percentage and, for the most part, about equally between both major parties. If you buy into the Kerry was robbed in 2004 scenario, you'd have to demonstrate that the fraud was both far more prevalent then believed AND far more unilateral in character.




    All told, the only winner in this scenario is Mr. Meyer. "Mission Accomplished!"
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 09-19-2007 at 18:32.
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    I'm leaning towards the "he got what he deserved" camp on this one. The kid was an attention whore and he ignored repeated requests to leave and continued to resist and struggle when they tried to make him leave forcibly. I don't feel any sympathy towards him.

    On the other hand, police in general seem a bit quick to use "non-lethal" weapons whenever someone resists arrest, imo. Yeah, he was struggling and making a scene, but he wasn't posing a threat to anyone- was the tazer absolutely necessary, or just more convenient?
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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  11. #11
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    What reason did the police have to use force to remove him from the building?

    I'm talking about when they grabbed him and started hauling him out after he stopped talking. How was that called for? They were to quick to use force. Now, resisting any normal person who's dragging you about is normal. But if you do such a thing to police who have don't have a good reason suddenly you're a criminal.
    Yeah, he was struggling and making a scene, but he wasn't posing a threat to anyone- was the tazer absolutely necessary, or just more convenient?
    Exactly. It was a convenience thing - make him feel lots of pain until he complies.

    The thing is, the police can use force against you when it isn't warranted, but if you should resist -even nonviolently- then suddenly the police get the nod to use even more force against you.

    Yeah, he was loud - so what?

    Things like this show a paradox:
    The passivity with which some of you guys expect to obey authority ...
    While at the same time having a constitution that says 'Guys be armed so that you can tell authority where to shove it'.
    Sadly, many Americans choose false security over freedom.

    I hardly consider a tazer torture.
    Yet something makes me think using tasers against POWs would be forbidden.

    CR
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  12. #12
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Right or wrong, its still some funny ####!!!
    RIP Tosa

  13. #13
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    wow. "there giving me to the goverment" NEWSFLASH: YOU AINT THAT IMPORTANT COLLEGE BOY
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  14. #14

    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Drive Stun

    Some TASER devices, particularly those used by police departments, also have a "Drive Stun" capability, where the taser is held against the target without firing barbs and is intended to cause pain without incapacitating the target. TASER defines "Drive Stun" as "the process of using the EMD weapon as a pain compliance technique. This is done by activating the EMD and placing it against an individual’s body. This can be done without an air cartridge in place or after an air cartridge has been deployed.". [12]

    A Las Vegas police document says "The Drive Stun causes significant localized pain in the area touched by the TASER but does not have a significant effect on the central nervous system. The Drive Stun does not incapacitate a subject but may assist in taking a subject into custody." [13]

    It is also known as "Dry taseing" or "Drive taseing".
    Interesting

    http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/0...ort.072274.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by police report
    On 09/17/07 at 1015 hours, I was working an overtime function at the University Auditorium
    for Accent presents Senator John Kerry. There were approximately 350 plus people in
    attendance. At approximately 1245 hrs., Ambassador Jett informed the audience that there
    would be a question and answer session and that Senator Kerry would only be answering
    about 6 questions, 3 on each side of the room where there were microphones set up. Senator
    Kerry told Ambassador Jett that he might be able to answer a couple more, time permitting.
    Senator Kerry was answering questions during the "question and answer stage" of his
    presentation when the audience was told there would only be one question left to be answered.
    After the question was answered, Senator Kerry stated the question and answer was over and
    thanked the audience for asking their questions. The approximate number of people in line
    asking questions was about 20, and Senator Kerry answered about 8 questions. All of the
    people standing in line started to dissipate and either sat back down or started to leave.

    As Senator Kerry was ending his speech, a man disrupted the senator by screaming, yelling,
    and flailing his arms. The man moved his way down the aisle yelling, "Why don't you answer
    my questions, I have been waiting and listening to you speak in circles for the last two hours."
    "These officers are going to arrest me". I didn't see any officer directly next to him until I
    noticed Officer Wise walking down trying to get his attention. The man was screaming and
    yelling obscenities until Senator Kerry told him to calm down and that he would take his
    question, but he needed to calm down. At that point, the man stated, "You will take my
    question because I have been listening to your crap for two hours". The man at that point
    turned to his friend and said, "Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?" The man
    was talking to a woman who was there to film him.
    Before asking the question, I had a chance
    to ask the man if he was a student and he stated, "I don't have to tell you." I the asked him if
    he knew the rules to the student code of conduct and he said, "What?" I informed the man
    that after he asked Senator Kerry the question that I needed to talk to him outside. After
    asking the question, the man would not let Senator Kerry finish his statement and kept
    badgering the senator about his beliefs, talking about "blow jobs", and yelling as loud as he
    could as to sensationalize his presence.

    At that moment the Accent Director, Max Tyroler, asked us to take him out of the auditorium
    and had his microphone turned off stating, "He had said enough."
    Officer Wise and I
    grabbed both of the man's arms and asked him to come with us out of the auditorium to
    speak with us. The man then lifted me up and pushed Officer Wise to avoid being taken into
    custody. As he pushed and kicked Officer Wise, Sgt. King grabbed him and escorted him out
    of the room, but the man pushed Sgt. King out of the way and was yelling and trying to get
    back down the aisle. At this point Officer Sexton, Officer De Jesus, and Officer Lamb tried to
    assist Officer Wise and Sgt King in getting a hold of the punching and kicking irate man
    while Officer Dean, Officer Passero, and Officer Spurlin were present trying to assist. The
    man continued to scream and yell as well as push, kick, and elbow the officers attempting to
    take him into custody. After multiple attempts to tell him to stop resisting, the man said,
    "No" and continued to push and elbow the officers. Only one handcuff was placed on the man
    as he continued to punch his way out of the hold. The officers could not get a hold of his other

    arm as he was kicking, punching, and elbowing into officers. After many attempts to get the
    man to comply, he chose to continue actively resisting the officers. I obeyed the command
    from Sgt. King to utilize the taser for the continuation of non-compliance by the man. One
    contact tase to the man's left shoulder was deployed for the duration of its cycle. After the
    cycle ended, the man was asked to comply and stop resisting and for a brief moment he did, at
    which time he was placed in handcuffs.
    After he was lifted to his feet, he kept screaming and
    yelling to let him go by continually pushing the officers. I read the man his Miranda rights
    and explained why he was being placed under arrest. As the man was escorted down stairs
    with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down
    stairs he started screaming and yelling again. Some of the comments that the man made were
    "You can't kill me.", "They are giving me to the government." and "They are going to kill
    me."
    The man was identified not only by the people there filming for him, but also by a business
    card he had on him that had his picture on it. The card read, "TheANDREWMEYER.com
    "Speak my mind." I asked him if he was Andrew Meyer and he said, "Yes, I am."


    Meyer was transported to the Alachua County Detention Center by my myself and Officer
    Vinson. Meyer stated he just wanted Senator Kerry to hear what he had to say and that he
    was upset when he ended the questions without being heard. Meyer stated, on the way to the
    jail, "I am not mad at you guys, you didn't do anything wrong, you were just trying to do
    your job." Meyer was laughing and being lighthearted in the car, his demeanor completely
    changed once the cameras were not in sight. Meyer did ask, at one point, if the cameras were
    going to be at the jail.

    Meyer was charged with disturbing the peace (interfering with a school function) and
    resisting with violence. A use of force report was filled out and Meyer was sent a Judicial
    affairs form for his actions. None of the officers injured needed to seek medical attention and
    the injuries sustained from this incident were digitally documented.

    Just as I thought. People are being ridiculously irrational about this. But then anti-police prejudice is pretty common.

  15. #15
    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: The proper way to get tazed...

    Guy got what he deserved. Just another attention grabbing whore. And from all I've seen on the Police Report, it seems that there wasn't anything unjust about the way the officer's treated him. Had he been struck in the face multiple times by a billy club I might say that it was overkill. Freedom of Speech May be Universal, but it can also be abused.

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