Favorite faction in Viking Invasion?

[Passatempo]

Thanks for the hint

but i have already started as the Welsh and have just conquered the last mercian province...
i guess ill take the saxons now, before they get too strong

[Sensei Warrior]

There seems to be a trend in MTW with players overall. As a generalization, players like to get the most out of the games they play. Most players concur that the game ends long before the, 'you win' screen. Well if that's the case usually the factions that gives the greatest challenge are the ones that players like the most.

Their seems to be an agreement that the non-huscarle factions are the favorites in VI. The Picts, the Welsh, the Irish, and the Scots hold the top spots. These factions also have some serious disadvantages to them. The Welsh and the Scots(?) have no AP units, the Irish only have Javelin missile units. The Picts do pretty well unit wise but their Provences are dirt poor and they are the first on the chopping block for Viking Raiding (at least most of the games I've seen). All of those factions also have underdeveloped Provences. They might yield good cash, but its gonna take some work.

I'm sure the rest of it is personal preference. I really want to give the Welsh Bandits a workout. Some other micro-managing egomaniacs like to order around the Irish's Javelin units, etc.

Its not that we don't like the Mercians, Saxons, and Vikings, its just the 'fun' part of the game doesn't last quite as long as dragging yourself out of Pictish Hell or wading through thousands upon thousands of snooty Mercian troops all the while beating off the Vikings with little more than a pointy stick.

/end rant.

EDIT Whoops didnt realize the Scottish are at the bottom of the polls. Hmm, will have to work on the theroy a bit more.

[Tratorix]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't welsh bandits use longbows, and therefore have AP capabilities? I've never been able to survive long enough as the welsh to tech up to them .

[Sensei Warrior]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't welsh bandits use longbows, and therefore have AP capabilities? I've never been able to survive long enough as the welsh to tech up to them .

You are entirely correct, Sir. I really don't consider them because I get Welsh Bandits so late in the game that usually its only a Provence or 2 from being over. Unless I've turtled my way into boredom. Even at that pace most of the Armored threat has fallen. Even turtling, I break the Saxons, the Mercians, and have neutralized the Viking threat one way or the other. At that point the Northumbrians and everyone else can be overwhelmed.

The rest is entirely off the point, but if your looking to win one for the Welsh I can give you my time tested winning approach. In the beginning, focus mostly on unit building, and make sure to compartmentalize to save $$. Cerinu makes Celtic Warriors along with Clwydd. Pouis pushes directly for boats. Guined makes Archers (Valour).

Start building what units you can in your provences. When you get your first heir take the 2 rebel Provences to the west and attack the Saxons via Defnas. Defnas will make Horsemen (Valour). After that use all unit production to fuel pushing the Saxons off the map. Remember to build boats as soon as you can to thwart the Vikings.

Somewhere around this point when I get an extra 1500 I slap it on Forest Clearing or Building Farms when and where I can. I also scrounge up 2 more Provences to build ships so I'm constantly producing one a year. After Saxons consolidate, readjust and then whack Mercia. By the time you're done with Mercia you're probably really close to encircling the map with ships.

After this it's really up to you. You can continue North and swallow up the Northumbrians, Scottish, and Picts, or wipe the Irish out next, or turtle up and finish teching up. You can do whatever since by this point you own all the richest lands, are prolly swimming in Florins and have some hardcore units and many starred generals.

This is the bare bones version it doesnt account for appointing generals or whatnot, these are the general goals I have in mind when I run a once through with the Welsh. There are other ways, but I think this one is the easiest. The Welsh FAQ thingy also has some good strats. Another one is Mercia first then the Saxons since Mercia is closer to getting Huscarles than Saxon is.

In the end, you might want to brave a blitz with the Welsh to get that first win under your belt. After that you can play with em a bit to see how much wiggle room you got to work with.

Sorry bout that folks, but I feel having a good go with the Welsh is something everyone should experience. Especially since I likes them the mostests.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

I'm not sure if I'm 'right' in saying this

but quite a few say (including me) that Shogun had the perfect setting for a TW game, i.e civil war, provinces all close together, also with development of technology (gunpowder), etc

but I feel that VI is fairly similar, as like Shogun, it involves numerous provinces (although some are more spread out between the sea, i.e Ireland Hordaland, Jutland, Hebrides, Orcadia), and although it's not so much a civil war (as it's more to do with different competing tribes) I do get at times a fairly similar feel to the game (even though obviously it's different and personally I find STW has the best atmosphere).

But this could explain why I enjoy VI a lot too, I guess I prefer to have campaigns on more local / focused areas, where there is always the risk of enemy factions being very close. (other reasons include my interest in the late dark ages, and tribes in Northern Europe, although my interest in weapons, armour and their development always comes first).

[Martok]

I tend to agree with you, SHPL. Many Total War players (including myself) do indeed enjoy smaller, more focused maps such as what's provided in Viking Invasion and Shogun. Not that I don't also love MTW's main campaign as well, but I'm glad that's not my only option when playing this game.

[Noir]

Not that I don't also love MTW's main campaign as well, but I'm glad that's not my only option when playing this game.

Indeed - the MTW map treats few areas satisfactorily even for the scale/scope of the game.

What i mean to say is that few areas other than say Britain and the North of France are divided in a fitting & satisfying number of provinces:

Top Despicable provinces in MTW IMO:

Acquitaine
Province
Castille
Portugal
Cordoba
Morocco
Cyrenaica
Syria
Trebizond
Nicaea
Greece (!)
Switzerland
Bohemia
Hungary (!)
Poland (!)
Kiev
Volhynia
Lithuania
Khazar
Naples
Venice (!) (actually Verona)

All of those and more should have been chopped in two or three pieces - interestingly Malta and Rhodes appeared as independent provinces (!) - probably in an attempt to provide for flavor and regenerate the Knights of St John strongholds.

[Ayachuco]

wait a minute what's this???<looking at poll results>
oh no the Vikings are back!!!
They're tied with us Welsh lovers!!! How are we going to reclaim the Isles now??? Welsh players Unite!!!
The only prblm with VI is that the map does not included any of the northern French problems. If only I could est. Normandy. The Vikings also worked their way into the Seine too.
edit:By problems, I mean the...uh...provinces.

[drone]

The Vikings can be fun to play, if you apply crazy rules to your game. Superfast rush, only royal huscarles (no Joms), max the gold, invasion troop limits, remain pagan, that kind of stuff. Their troops are usually so good (and the homelands impervious to invasion), that you can get away with a lot.

[Sensei Warrior]

The Vikings are fun to play when you want to be the 'bad' guy. Plundering and Pillaging, keepin yourself Pagans, throwin a monkey wrench into the Britons ideas of a 'United Isles'.

I forgot I played a game as the Vikings where I did nothing more than keep the British Isles fractured. It was loads of fun. I'd put the smackdown on anyone who got to uppity. Eventually I got bored and gave it up, but it was fun.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

the first time I played as the Picts I took to making Orcadia my main province (even though it isn;t too big, etc) but liked the idea of the island being 'isolated' (even though the Vikings regularly invaded it and could cut me off with their ships).

Would also be nice if there were the Shetland Islands (Hjaltland), then again I'd also love the Faroe Islands (although that would spread the map distance out more)

Was there in the summer of 2005, really interesting, and great scenery

[Passatempo]

ok, i've just won my first VI campaign and, since i can't vote, ill let my "vote" here.
I've played as the welsh and loved to play with them.

I realize now that i cant play without archers, lots of archers...

[Martok]

@ drone & Sensei Warrior: Agreed. I do enjoy playing as the Vikings from time to time -- nothing says "fun" like burning and pillaging ones way across & around the Isles.

Problem is, however, is that they're *way* too easy (even more than the Saxons & Mercians). With their special raiding ability, the Vikings can quickly amass a huge treasury, thus giving them ample time to conquer/colonize Britain and Ireland at their leisure. They're still good for an occasional romp, though.

ok, i've just won my first VI campaign and, since i can't vote, ill let my "vote" here.
I've played as the welsh and loved to play with them.

I realize now that i cant play without archers, lots of archers...

Congratulations, Roman Lord! You enjoyed your first VI campaign, then?

[drone]

One thing I've wanted to try, curious to see how feasible it is. Play the Vikings, raid the main island into the stone age, but leave the Irish alone and nurture them into a powerhouse. Once they reach a certain level of awesomeness, attack. The Irish are the one faction I fear when playing the Vikings (you just know you are going to take big casualties). Anybody tried something like this? Will the Irish make it across the Irish Sea?

[Sensei Warrior]

One thing I've wanted to try, curious to see how feasible it is. Play the Vikings, raid the main island into the stone age, but leave the Irish alone and nurture them into a powerhouse. Once they reach a certain level of awesomeness, attack. The Irish are the one faction I fear when playing the Vikings (you just know you are going to take big casualties). Anybody tried something like this? Will the Irish make it across the Irish Sea?

I've never tried it, but my last post got me thinking of doing the same thing. The only difference is I was thinking of the Picts. The Pictish are already on the main island, and I am pretty sure they can give the Vikings a run for their money if they are allowed to develop. All those icky XBow units.

I've never seen the Irish cross to the mainland, but I've read a number of posts about them doing just that. I am sure its feasible, you should give it a whirl and see what happens. I just finished up a game as the Welsh, so I am planning on revving one up and being the Picts big brother just to see how it goes.

Congrats Roman Lord. Welcome to the wonderful world of missile units. Soon you'll be eyeing the battlefields for the highest mountaintops, and using your mounted units as bait to encourage the bad guys to make the climb and pincushion them into submission. Death from above.

Martok agreed. They are way too easy. So easy its almost laughable. Still it is fun for a bit, especially after you've taken a horrid beating in another game. Like a little ego boost.

[Passatempo]

Congratulations, Roman Lord! You enjoyed your first VI campaign, then?

yes i did
now ill try to conquer europe as the English (only because of the longbowman )

[seireikhaan]

Indeed - the MTW map treats few areas satisfactorily even for the scale/scope of the game.

What i mean to say is that few areas other than say Britain and the North of France are divided in a fitting & satisfying number of provinces:

Top Despicable provinces in MTW IMO:

Acquitaine
Province
Castille
Portugal
Cordoba
Morocco
Cyrenaica
Syria
Trebizond
Nicaea
Greece (!)
Switzerland
Bohemia
Hungary (!)
Poland (!)
Kiev
Volhynia
Lithuania
Khazar
Naples
Venice (!) (actually Verona)

All of those and more should have been chopped in two or three pieces - interestingly Malta and Rhodes appeared as independent provinces (!) - probably in an attempt to provide for flavor and regenerate the Knights of St John strongholds.

Hmm, I can see a lot of these. However, a couple I'm not quite sure why you put down. Mainly, Switzerland and Volhynia. Why these? Is Volhynia too big perhaps? The only reason I can think of to dislike Switzerland is because its a nightmare trying to get any of those nice swiss troops anywhere.

[seireikhaan]

yes i did
now ill try to conquer europe as the English (only because of the longbowman )

Now, now, don't forget Billmen! Personally, I think the English are a bit too easy for my tastes, given their easily defensible location, and the fact that once they hit the high period, they get:
A) Chivalric Knights and men at arms, just like the other catholics.
B) Absolutely devastating long range troop(longbowmen) which can be trained en masse w/ 1 extra valor, and w/ 2 extra valor from Wales.
C) Cavalry chewer(Billmen) which, like longbows, can be trained en masse w/ 1 extra valor, and 2 extra valor from Mercia.
Not to mention, if you can conquer Spain, w/ all those iron-rich provinces, you can in the long run, potentially, train chivalric knights w/ +4 armour/weapon, and +1 valor(from Aquitaine), and Billmen w/ +4 armour/weapon, and +2 valor(from Mercia) and similar results w/ longbows as well.

[Sensei Warrior]

Now, now, don't forget Billmen! Personally, I think the English are a bit too easy for my tastes, given their easily defensible location, and the fact that once they hit the high period, they get:
A) Chivalric Knights and men at arms, just like the other catholics.
B) Absolutely devastating long range troop(longbowmen) which can be trained en masse w/ 1 extra valor, and w/ 2 extra valor from Wales.
C) Cavalry chewer(Billmen) which, like longbows, can be trained en masse w/ 1 extra valor, and 2 extra valor from Mercia.

And don't forget about Tancred de Normandie, god of all generals . You get him from building Urban Militia in Early in Anjou or the middle English Provence on the mainland. He is the center of every raving defense I have of Urban Militia. If utilized correctly in the beginning, (him and a hobby named Odo Borleg(?) are the only 'useful' generals you get early on), he will be a powerhouse in High ordering around those fancy Billmen and Longbowmen. Makes me want to revv up an English Campaign right now just thinking about it.

[Passatempo]

maybe you're right, but considering my position (never managed to achieve 100% and still playingo on easy) i guesse playing as the English s a good idea

[Martok]

Don't worry Roman Lord; they're just giving you a bit of crap.

For those who are still fairly new to MTW, the English are actually a pretty good faction to play. Given their decent starting position and the troops they get once the High period comes around, they're often cited by many players as being one of the better factions to play.

[Sensei Warrior]

Don't worry Roman Lord; they're just giving you a bit of crap.

I'm not to sure who they was, but it was most certainly not me . I apologize if it came across badly, but the English is one of my favorite factions. The other being the Turkish. Other than that Martok is entirely correct, the English is one of the better Catholic factions to play.

I would never give you grief about playing the English. I commend your choice in the matter. I mean its not like your playing in complete easy mode, which would be starting a game as the Spanish . Just for the record, the Spanish was the 2nd game I ever played, the first was the Almos and I'm ashamed to admit that I lost both of them. LOST PLAYING AS THE ALMOS AND THE SPANISH. How does that happen?

Anyways, my first win was playing as the Turks. Speaking of which, you said you like having lots of archers. Well, after you're done with the English (no rush take your time) you might want to rev up a game as the Turks. It'll feel a little odd, their building requirements for troops are a little different then Catho factons, but they have more archer units than you can shake a stick at, and all of them are better than 'nilla Archers, which you get as well.

[Passatempo]

i guess ill play as the turkish later then..

[caravel]

I'm the middle of a VI Irish campaign and have hit what I can only term as the "Huscarle barrier". The Huscarle barrier is the point where a none huscarle faction namely the Irish, Welsh, Picts and Scots, arrive at a point where in order to progress further they must:

a) Break into the territory of a huscarle faction and start gaining provinces using only counter huscarle techniques.

b) Train a lot of Royal Bodyguards, mounted nobles, crossbow and javelin units to deal with Huscarles etc.

c) Fight battle after battle concentrating on exterminating as many huscarles as possible while inevitably taking disproportionate losses.

d) Decide whether a, b and c will make for interesting gameplay.

The answer to d, for me, is that it's not worth it so I will most likely give up soon. My faction is powerful but to beat the massive Mercians I would have to spam a lot of units and get a move on if I want to do it before 1066. Ahistorical battles that involve massed javelin volleys against overpowered supermen don't really appeal to me that much. The warrior monks in STW were to be feared, but did have a realistic counter, not armour piercing javelins or crossbows.

This is where VI fails miserably IMHO. Though a superb idea that could have been better than the main MTW campaign if they had pulled it off, it fails in terms of overall balance and CA's efforts at predetermination (the vikings raided, so make them raiders and the English won so give the english factions axe wielding supermen and make them winners etc, etc). It also fails in that it borrows over much from MTW itself instead of using 100% unique units and buildings.

[Tony Furze]

Cambyses II said: "the vikings raided, so make them raiders and the English won so give the english factions axe wielding supermen and make them winners etc, etc"

Excellent point, in my opinion, and especially the reference to "predetermination".

Im catching up on my history reading, and there were just so many factors in victories that were nothing to do with military supremacy or technique, or battle savvy. Yesterday I was reading about the discovery of the "holy lance" at Antioch during the First Crusade.

[bamff]

I'll second (or third??) the recommendation to give the English a whirl, Roman Lord. They have a good unit roster - not only do you get billmen and longbows as mentioned, but in early you get fyrdmen - a great spear unit to have around in that part of the game!

One thing I don't like about the English is the absence of any form of mounted missile unit (until you get as far as Antioch(?) and can get Turcopoles at any rate).

My original plan when starting out with the Picts was to then go back to MTW for my next effort....but I will confess that this thread has started me thinking of having a crack at either the VI Scots or Irish....

[Alex D]

So far it's the Irish, simply because I picked them in my first VI campaign, and simply because I've always wanted to visit Ireland...
Bonnachts are a very interesting unit, as are the Kerns and Dartmen, thereby forcing me to think very differently tactics wise, while using these Javelin units as opposed to other units in the main MTW campaign.
The Viking Carls and Beserkers are going to be a challenge for me to think up tactics to use against them with all these javelin units...as are the Huscarls now to mention it.
Cheers
Alex

[drone]

So far it's the Irish, simply because I picked them in my first VI campaign, and simply because I've always wanted to visit Ireland...
Bonnachts are a very interesting unit, as are the Kerns and Dartmen, thereby forcing me to think very differently tactics wise, while using these Javelin units as opposed to other units in the main MTW campaign.
The Viking Carls and Beserkers are going to be a challenge for me to think up tactics to use against them with all these javelin units...as are the Huscarls now to mention it.
Cheers
Alex

Dartmen are fairly worthless, but you can use them to target Beserkers. Kerns and Bonnachts have armor piercing javelins, use those against the heavily armored Viking units. Gallowglasses also have an armor piercing melee attack which works well against huscarles. The best tactic is to pin the heavies with spearmen (armored spearmen if you can get them), and flank with the Kerns and Gallowglasses. Once your Kerns are out of ammo, use them to chase down archers, or use them as a last charge to force a rout.

It's tough to manage skirmishing javelin units, but you can cause lots of chaos in the enemy lines. Your units are faster, and will not tire as quickly as the armored units, so you can use this and terrain to fatigue the enemy. Good luck, the Irish gameplay is very different than the rest.

[Alex D]

Thanks drone, sounds like good advice. I'm now finding that early on as the Irish, their horsemen are ...ahem...not too good. But overall the Irish are fun to play so far.
Cheers
Alex

[drone]

Thanks drone, sounds like good advice. I'm now finding that early on as the Irish, their horsemen are ...ahem...not too good.

The same can be said for many factions in VI. Apart from the Royal Bodyguards/Mounted Nobles, your horsemen are generally only good for attacking archers or running down routers.

Also, try to tech up your troops before trying to face the heavies. Iron can be found in Munster, Ulster, and Manau, try to get Armorers and Metalsmiths going. Either Brega or Laigin (can't remember which) gives a +1 valor bonus to Kerns trained there. Also, build the Christian Shrines/Chapels etc, to get the troop morale bonus. This will help when the casualties start to mount in battle. If you have any idle troops around, make sure you are upgrading them if possible.