Balance in Kingdoms - myth or reality

[zaher]

Well, after all, can you say that Kingdoms are well balanced? In my opinion they are not and here is why:







I can understand about horse lowering defence of rider, but why mounted unit of same kind got lower charge bonus and attack is a mystery for me. This is only one example of what i find unacceptable. Yeah, cavalry still can all, but who need it?

[antisocialmunky]

Calvary has mass. Mass matters more in charge than anything else pretty much.

[zaher]

Calvary has mass. Mass matters more in charge than anything else pretty much.

And? Is that something new?

[Zatoichi]

Yes, mass has gained more importance in Kingdoms because it's been tweaked upwards for cavalry, adding to their charge.

You're on a bit of a mission here, mate, aren't you?

[Guru]

This kind of balance discussion should never be based on stats only. How would you like a Tartar cavalry unit with 12 attack? With the charge bonus this cheap, medium cavalry unit could take down pretty much everything. How about good spearmen with an attack of 7? Who would take them seriously? Stats never tell the whole truth. Ever heard of "animation"? (Sorry, I just had to say that...) To me their stats seem pretty balanced. If you find it "unacceptable" just mod the game.

- Guru

[zaher]

May be someone from ascended, those, who know the "real" balance and stats, will tell me truth about units, so i will be able adjust it to my actual gameplay? So, you say:" dont beleve in what you see in game". Lol. Mod it? Lol. The secret mass of horse riders?Lol. Bye, bye, TW.

[FactionHeir]

My belief is that the current "new balance" is making cavalry quite a bit worse than it should be.
From running a test, late general's bodyguards (i.e. plate horses and high attack + charge) couldn't even kill more than 2 spearmen head-on.

While I understand speamen are anti cavalry, they are supposed to kill a few horses on impact more than other units rather than not lose a single man basically against very-heavy cavalry. Afterall, that mass of plated horse crashing into a mass of men (in addition to a late era lance) will definitely take a lot more with them than it does now.

A better balance would be a middle ground between inbalanced post-shieldfix 1.2 units and the new balance, but tilted more towards the old balance.

[CountMRVHS]

Bye, bye Zaher!


Seriously, stats are nice but in-game performance is a different issue. Always has been with TW games. Lower-stat units will sometimes outperform others in an actual battle, due to all kinds of factors that can't easily or reasonably be put on a unit's info card. You can't just look at the numbers and then scream about the injustice of it all.

Oh, wait. I guess you can.

[Guru]

May be someone from ascended, those, who know the "real" balance and stats, will tell me truth about units, so i will be able adjust it to my actual gameplay? So, you say:" dont beleve in what you see in game". Lol. Mod it? Lol. The secret mass of horse riders?Lol. Bye, bye, TW.

What is your point? You post a thread claiming that Kingdoms is unbalanced because of the different stats of mounted and dismounted units. It's ok, an opinion like any other. People reply and present opinions why the stats might be the way they are. Yet you reply to those replies with unnecessary irony, or even mockery, one might say.
How does this statistic unbalance affect gameplay after all? Are spearmen overpowered? Is cavalry underpowered? So far you have only presented screenshots of unit cards. That proves little about balance on battlefield because there are so many factors. Due to this I can't really see what is the problem. If you'd be so kind and explain how this unbalance is apparent on the battlemap, and without irony this time if I may ask.

- Guru

[Shahed]

I think what zaher means is that cavalry is underpowered.

[TB666]

This kind of balance discussion should never be based on stats only.

Yeah, with M2TW in general there is more to a unit then their stats.

Overall Kingdoms is balanced, a few tweaks here and there would be nice of course but compared to the M2TW 1.0 it's alot more balanced.

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

In M2TW i could send a single generals bodyguard against 2 units archers and 2 units of cheap spears defending a town square and win 9 times out of 10. In kingdoms i would get eaten 9 times out of 10 so something has changed bad or good to early to tell new animations changed stuff.

[ReiseReise]

You're looking at the info scroll, those stats are almost useless, the important question is how do they actually perform in battle. The answer is simple, the cav will make many many more kills on impact than the dismounted. That is why the cav have lower stats, to prevent them from being terrifically overpowered. That IS balance, not a lack of it.

Stats don't mean anything, look at the Aztecs Eagle Warriors and Jaguar Warriors. Defense, morale, stamina basically the same, but the Eagles have a much greater attack. Even though they have lower attack, the Jaguars cost are a better unit, they cost more per man and need an upgraded building (same type but 1 higher), and most important, one Jaguars (75) will crush 2 Eagles (2x60).

[TheImp]

Do we know the exact proportion mass takes in charges now?