Knowledge about the Belgian situation

[Peasant Phill]

Belgium, known as Absurdistan by its inhabitants, seems to be in a pickle. The politicians of the two cultures (Walloon and Flemish culture) are paralysing the government formation for more than 100 days by now. It isn't the longest time it took to form a government, but it is getting close to the record.
Every now and than, the media reports on the foreign press and their view of the situation. Apparently, a lot of non Belgian Journalists seem to think that the end of Belgium as a country is near. This is not yet the general feeling in Belgium itself but I'm curious how foreigners look at the current situation, how they get their information and what they see as the cause and result of the current situation.

[Andres]

Meh, we have excellent beer and something to bet on:

1) when will we have the next government? a) next month b) next year c) within 10 years d) government? we are doing fine for more then 100 days without a government. Why would we need a government for? Hail to the King baby!

2) Who will be the next prime minister: a) Leterme; b) Reynders; c) Verhofstadt; d) Eddy Wally.

3) How many ministers will we have after the next reformation of the state: a) 100; b) 1.000; c) 100.000; d) What? You're Belgian and not a minister? Loser!

What more do you want?

[The_Mark]

As a foreigner who really doesn't pay much attention to politics I can say that I haven't the foggiest clue of what's going on in there.

I did get a six-pack of Leffe Blonde last weekend, which, I hear, cost 4€. According to my standards, you're doing bloody well down there

Edit: Oh my God, they're served in 25cl bottles! And they're not sealed with the glittery foil paper thingy! What's this mean?

[drone]

Without a government, nobody is going to be making any stupid laws. Consider yourself lucky.

[Kralizec]

Apparently, a lot of non Belgian Journalists seem to think that the end of Belgium as a country is near.

I never got the impression it was that bad until I saw Belgium was on sale on Ebay.

This is not yet the general feeling in Belgium itself but I'm curious how foreigners look at the current situation, how they get their information and what they see as the cause and result of the current situation.

It seems to me that Leterme can't back down from his demands for extensive reforms, and that the Walloon liberal and christian democrat leaders can't give in one inch on the Flemish demands without risking political embarassment. That's what you get when one side A says "we'll get this done for you" and side B says "we'll make sure that doesn't happen" during the elections.

[The_Mark]

It tastes a bit bitter. I reckon all's not well in the promised land of beer.

[Peasant Phill]

...
3) How many ministers will we have after the next reformation of the state: a) 100; b) 1.000; c) 100.000; d) What? You're Belgian and not a minister? Loser!

Andres, I really love your sarcasm. Sometimes you just have to be a bit sarcastic to deal with some Belgian solutions. But count yourself lucky, I bet Congo has more ministers than us. (I would like the position of Secretary of State for passive sports in the federal governement or if that one is taken the position of Minister of Japanese influenced flower arranging in the Flemish government)

I did get a six-pack of Leffe Blonde last weekend, which, I hear, cost 4€. According to my standards, you're doing bloody well down there

Yeah well that's what the common man here thinks. Besides Beer should taste bitter. Leffe isn't something you can chug down in one go, you should take your time and enjoy it. But maybe somethings tastes rotten in the land of beer.

Without a government, nobody is going to be making any stupid laws. Consider yourself lucky.

We still have enough other governments for that.

It seems to me that Leterme can't back down from his demands for extensive reforms, and that the Walloon liberal and christian democrat leaders can't give in one inch on the Flemish demands without risking political embarassment. That's what you get when one side A says "we'll get this done for you" and side B says "we'll make sure that doesn't happen" during the elections.

Well this is the situation in a nutshell. Add to this some issues that have been put off for a decade or more, two parties that haven't been excluded from the federal government since the invention of the bookpress losing big in the elections. If your an inhabitant of any other country than Belgium and are interested in politics this is just one heck of a ride. Sit back and enjoy the rest of the show.

[The_Mark]

Yeah well that's what the common man here thinks. Besides Beer should taste bitter. Leffe isn't something you can chug down in one go, you should take your time and enjoy it. But maybe somethings tastes rotten in the land of beer.

My first encounter with Leffe led me and my friend to chugging a bar empty of it, enjoying every swing.

This one was disturbingly bitter.

[Geoffrey S]

I don't know how it is in Belgium, but as far as I can tell in Holland people are aware that things aren't going smoothly in our neighbour but in general just don't care either way. Belgium's problem, deal with it. At least there haven't been any ethnic cleansings.

[Mikeus Caesar]

At least there haven't been any ethnic cleansings.

Yet...

[AntiochusIII]

Yet...

lol. That would be such an embarassment.

Arrogant, flame-provoking statement of the day from yours truly: Nobody cares about Belgium :P

I mean, seriously, how large is the damn place? How can there be any serious separatist movements in a country that size? What are these people? Idiots? It's the age of trains and cars, soon to be spaceships and flying saucers. "The Village and immediate surroundings" should've by now included a whole continent at least.

Who knows? May be the center of the European Union would become an Anarchist paradise! Brussels Commune, here we come!

[Andres]

lol. That would be such an embarassment.

Arrogant, flame-provoking statement of the day from yours truly: Nobody cares about Belgium :P

I mean, seriously, how large is the damn place? How can there be any serious separatist movements in a country that size? What are these people? Idiots? It's the age of trains and cars, soon to be spaceships and flying saucers. "The Village and immediate surroundings" should've by now included a whole continent at least.

Who knows? May be the center of the European Union would become an Anarchist paradise! Brussels Commune, here we come!

If you don't care about Belgium, why did you bother posting here in the first place?

Bash our politicians as much as you want, they deserve it, but please show some respect for our little country and its' inhabitants.

Thank you

[AntiochusIII]

Bash our politicians as much as you want, they deserve it, but please show some respect for our little country and its' inhabitants.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Belgians are great -- the culture, the beauty, Brussels, etc. though personally I don't like any beer at all so (!?). It's just that separatist movements based on essentially ethnicity touches my pet peeve, bad. It brings out the "what is wrong with you people" side of me.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Vive la Belgique! Vive le peuple belge! Et vive Leterme et la Brabançonne!

[/drunk, Belgians will know what it's all about]

[lars573]

Vive la Belgique! Vive le peuple belge! Et vive Leterme et la Brabançonne!

[/drunk, Belgians will know what it's all about]

Argh! It's stuff like this that makes wish my Francophone comprehension skills were evolved beyond 10 yearold.

[Louis VI the Fat]

[/sober, the next morning]
Lars, it is a video of Guy Leterme from a few months ago. He is Flemish, and the expected prime minister to be of the federal government of Belgium. In the video he was asked to sing the Belgian national anthem in French, and then proceeds to sing the Marseillaise - the French national anthem. By sheer oblivious mistake, not as a statement by him of any kind, to be sure.

It is both hilarious and tragic. The nearest thing must be for, say, a French speaking Canadien PM to mistake the Spar Bangled Banner for the English version of 'Oh Canada'.

I posted it more or less as a reply to Antiochius, to show to what extent even a small country can be divided, to what extend Belgium is two societies living with their backs turned to each other.

I mean, seriously, how large is the damn place? How can there be any serious separatist movements in a country that size?

[Andres]

[/sober, the next morning]
Lars, it is a video of Guy Leterme from a few months ago.

It's Yves Leterme Little known fact: his father is Walloon...

I posted it more or less as a reply to Antiochius, to show to what extent even a small country can be divided, to what extend Belgium is two societies living with their backs turned to each other.

True that. We speak a different language (many francophones don't understand dutch, flemings usually do understand french, allthough the knowledge of french amongst the flemings is getting worse), watch totally different television programs, read different newspapers, like different artists, have different cultural interests, we have different political parties (every Flemish party has its' counterpart in Wallony, yet those counterparts are starting to become very different from each other).

Flemings and Walloons are getting more and more ignorant of each other and to be honest, I think many flemings (and walloons, but they probably won't admit it) are already living in a seperate country deep in their minds

But despite all our differences and quarrels, there has never been any violence or aggression towards each other. Everything goes through debate and civilised discussion.

The son of one of the flemish nationalists politicians (Bart De Wever), got threatened by some wacko a while ago. Mangain, a walloon politician who has been a thorn in the flemish side for many years now, was upset about this and said that this was inacceptable. Didier Reynders, another walloon politician, said something likewise.

[lars573]

It's Yves Leterme Little known fact: his father is Walloon...



True that. We speak a different language (many francophones don't understand dutch, flemings usually do understand french, allthough the knowledge of french amongst the flemings is getting worse), watch totally different television programs, read different newspapers, like different artists, have different cultural interests, we have different political parties (every Flemish party has its' counterpart in Wallony, yet those counterparts are starting to become very different from each other).

Flemings and Walloons are getting more and more ignorant of each other and to be honest, I think many flemings (and walloons, but they probably won't admit it) are already living in a seperate country deep in their minds

But despite all our differences and quarrels, there has never been any violence or aggression towards each other. Everything goes through debate and civilised discussion.

The son of one of the flemish nationalists politicians (Bart De Wever), got threatened by some wacko a while ago. Mangain, a walloon politician who has been a thorn in the flemish side for many years now, was upset about this and said that this was inacceptable. Didier Reynders, another walloon politician, said something likewise.

Replace flemings and Waloons with English and French Canadians, and I know exactly what you mean.

Lars, it is a video of Guy Leterme from a few months ago. He is Flemish, and the expected prime minister to be of the federal government of Belgium. In the video he was asked to sing the Belgian national anthem in French, and then proceeds to sing the Marseillaise - the French national anthem. By sheer oblivious mistake, not as a statement by him of any kind, to be sure.

I got that much, mostly. The problem is that I can't think in French. I have to translate in my head. And the tempo of native spoken French being what it is (faaaaaast), means I have a hard time keeping up.

[macsen rufus]

This story finally cropped up on the BBC Radio4 this morning - I didn't realise the guy singing 'La Marseileise' was a politico though, thought he was a random "guy in the street" It did make me laugh though, I recognised it instantly

The piece gave the impression that apart from Brussels, Belgium acts like two countries living in the same land and just being efficient by sharing infrastructure. There are plenty of marriages like that which don't end in divorce...

[Peasant Phill]

...
But despite all our differences and quarrels, there has never been any violence or aggression towards each other. Everything goes through debate and civilised discussion.
...

True, Belgians have always tried to be constructive when there were differences. There is or ever was an ETA, IRA or any other form of organisation that used violent means to fight for the emancipation of a certain cultural group. Luckely none saw the need for such a organisation. To our pride and shame we have always negotiated with each other to get to an acceptable solution for both cultures. Solutions however that leave none happy or are diluted to the point that they barely do what was set out. A price all/most/some of us are willing to pay for peaceful coexistence and keeping this construction named Belgium together.

One thing should be clearly understood and that is the reason for the current conflict between Flanders and Wallony. Both sides aren’t quarrelling because of cultural or ethnic differences, the only reason is egoism. Flemish (forgive my generalisation) are tired of having to wait for more abilities that were promised ages ago while the Walloons are afraid that eventually they’ll lose the monetary support of Flanders. So we wont pick up our machetes anytime soon.
Even more, Belgian can be seen as an example for other countries with regions that wish a form of self governing. I think of Spain among others.

The nonviolent reputation, however, isn’t entirely justified Schoolstrijd (catholic school system against state school system), koningskwestie (Flanders against Wallony about whether or not a collaborating king could return), Leuven Vlaams (changing the language of a university) and Voeren amongst others have resulted in causalities due to violent protests, mob aggression, toppled trams, …

[Rodion Romanovich]

Excellent, Belgium is ripe for conquest

[JR-]

is it ironic that the lair of the organisation scheming to create a post-sovereign europe exists in the european country most likely to become a post-sovereign state?

[Watchman]

Not any more than the UN headquarters being located, geographically, in the USA...