Bullying

[Mouzafphaerre]

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For what it's worth, I told my 11 year-old daughter if any boy ever touches you without permission, you have my permission to close your fist and pound him straight in the face. I guaranteed her my fullest support in the face of any and all school authorities. Or anyone else for that matter.

No way am I raising a girl who will allow herself to be bullied by an insecure man.

That is the story and the rest is mere babbling. The family should support and teach self respect to the children; the school administration have to watch and punish severely any harassment.

I was a victim of bullies all through my school life, up to the last few years of high school. There had been instances I had "reacted" -and they were remarkable ones - but due to the lack of self-confidence (I had always been undersized and weak), obscure family support (or non-support) and at best regardless (usually corrupted) school administration helped keeping me the oppressed coward.

Teach your children self-respect, self-confidence AND self-defence. Stand up with them in cases of crisis, if necessary against the school. Don't over-spoil them, but never pacify them either.
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[AntiochusIII]

I don't know why, but I've never been seriously bullied.

No, I didn't stand up for myself. In fact I was weak, timid, shy, with few friends, and the perfect cliché of that sickeningly nerdy studious type. By all human logic I should have been a primary target for the predators.

I guess I was well protected by my angel servants. It's good to be God :)

More seriously though, people are saying "stand up for yourself" all the time in this thread. Great. Congratulations, you passed the test of life. You can stand up for yourself; you do the right thing and teach your children to stand up for themselves; you can withstand the pressure and show it to your fellow humans what it means to possess a healthy ego and make it meaningful. How about those that aren't? "Oh they're pathetic"? In my opinion that kind of attitude is almost as bad as the bullying itself. You're just contributing to the ostracism and isolation even if your intention is the very opposite.

How much of a chance that it'll go through like a movie plot and the bullied kid, after a good slap by his good-intentioned friend, "wakes up to reality," fights the status quo, and set his or her life in order?

And whoever's saying in this thread that he's currently bullying another person: stop it. Please.

[English assassin]

More seriously though, people are saying "stand up for yourself" all the time in this thread. Great. Congratulations, you passed the test of life. You can stand up for yourself; you do the right thing and teach your children to stand up for themselves; you can withstand the pressure and show it to your fellow humans what it means to possess a healthy ego and make it meaningful. How about those that aren't? "Oh they're pathetic"? In my opinion that kind of attitude is almost as bad as the bullying itself. You're just contributing to the ostracism and isolation even if your intention is the very opposite

I don't think anyone IS saying that. What people are saying is that the only way to be sure not to be bullied is to stand up for yourself. You may wish that wasn't so, but it is. So the earlier in life you realise that is the answer, the better.

Anyway, in the spirit of being helpful, if you cannot realise this is so, or cannot act on it (and some people can't, and they deserve not to be bullied too) then my advice is to try to arrange your adult life at least to be in an environment where there is as little bullying as possible. Some sort of low to mind ranking job in a fairly structured environment? (Actually, the structured environment reminds me of another bit of advice for people who can't stand up for themselves who are still at school: give a martial art a go. Plenty of discipline in the lessons, (if you get the right instructor: if you get a macho meathead, leave), and after a few months to a year, much more self confidence. And the right kind of self confidence too, ie, you could handle yourself, but you don't need to prove it to anyone.)

[Ramses II CP]

Antiochus you seem to be implying that 'those that aren't' cannot change, that they're stuck in the position of not standing up for themselves. I see this thread as telling everyone that they can and should stand up for themselves. There's nothing inherent to a person that makes them a victim, no matter what size they are or what kind of temperment they have.

[AntiochusIII]

Antiochus you seem to be implying that 'those that aren't' cannot change, that they're stuck in the position of not standing up for themselves. I see this thread as telling everyone that they can and should stand up for themselves. There's nothing inherent to a person that makes them a victim, no matter what size they are or what kind of temperment they have.

Oh, not at all. It's rather that I'm presenting an alternative here that for many people the hurdle one must cross might be so high that it is near impossible. If you're sunk so deep it's all dark it might not be easy to climb up again no matter your effort.

It would be better of course if everyone's ready to stand up for themselves and their beliefs, there would be so much less bullying to go around and perhaps on an even grander scale so many fewer of those scumbag dictator types that litter the world's governments.

I'm merely presenting an addendum to the optimistic "You can do it!" with "Don't feel even worse if you fail the first, third, or three-hundredth time (which people, especially the no-self-respect, bullied type, tend to feel)" which is often missing from the prior message. People like success stories but how many failures are silenced in the shame of the person? How does one treat those failures? Not everyone has that adventurous attitude where a failure is just another step to freedom.

After all, sometimes bullies react very viciously to the threat to their authority, and for the preservation of your own life (gunned down, knifed, or beaten into hospital aren't exactly pleasant conclusions to a story of boy-stands-up-for-himself) it might be better to bow down a bit. Not very self-respectful, revolutionary, or heroic, but tolerably bourgeois enough.

We humans are rather psychologically fragile after all which of course make bullying activities even worse.

[Hepcat]

Well I've been bullied in primary school, intermediate school and high school.

In fact only memory of my first year at primary school, I was 5 and was being strangled by some kid who was in his last year. I can't remember what started it and I very much doubt it was me since I was only new to school and I'm not the kind of person who would provoke someone else. I couldn't pull his hands away from around my neck so I did the only thing I could do. I bit as hard as I could on his hand and kicked him in the shins and ran.

The problem then was that after the lunch break when we went back to class I got called into his classroom by the teacher who yelled at me until I said that he was strangling me and I got sent back to my class. I don't know what happened to that kid though because I can't actually remember anything else from my first year at primary school.

As for the other times. It was just people insulting me, and I used to get so angry that I'd be on the verge of hitting them, and would just went somewhere to calm myself down and then the next day it didn't bother me at all because I actually can't hold a grudge, even if I try. At intermediate school though there was one instance where I did actually hit the bastard who never stopped insulting me. It was when we were sitting on the floor and he was right behind me and for 15 minutes muttered insults. When we got up I spun around and hooked him in the stomach then walked straight out of the classroom and sat down outside for a bit. The teacher was shocked but my friends explained what he had been saying and I didn't get into trouble for it.

At high school the only problems I've had with bullying is from a teacher and not a student. It's my music teacher who has been holding a grudge against me since 2006. At first it wasn't so bad, then last year she started to really get on my nerves. She always spoke down to me, as if I'm a 3 year old, she made insulting jokes my playing. In the end I got sent by the head of the music department, who I considered my friend, to see the school counsellor to try and sort out why I was doing worst in music and why I didn't seem very happy.

That of course made things worse and the year culminated with me failing nearly everything except a composing assignment. This year I went back to school expecting to start over, but she'd been appointed head of the music department because the previous one had moved to be principal of another school.

I'd completely lost all annoyance I'd had at her from last year but the first day back at school I was told that I wasn't allowed to have trumpet lessons at school and that I shouldn't attempt the performance assessments because I can't pass them. My parents had to write a letter to the principal just so I could get lessons. I got told I wasn't allowed to do music by correspondence (using books and learning resources from Wellington) because I would fail it and I needed her to teach me.

So I had to merge with the year 12 class (a year below me) and this year I've had no help at all with my work because she just focuses on the year 12s and ignores me. I've overheard her complaining about me to a parent (my friend's mother) before class which doesn't seem very professional to me. Lots of other stuff and the most recent of which is where she has forbidden me to see my private trumpet tutor at school (which I have been doing for 18 months now without a problem) and yet he is there to help me with my performance pieces.

So once she has marked my research assignment I'm handing in a 2 page complaint letter to the principal about her because that was the last straw. I haven't got anything to lose because at the rate things are going this year in music is going to be an even more spectacular failure than last year.

Personally I don't like using violence to retaliate, I'd rather take it on the chin, so to speak, or find some other means to get back at them.

[naut]

Man Hepcat, I hadn't realised it had got that bad with her. She sounds like such a kniving witch. That really sucks, I feel for you.

[Charge]

My opinion on this is that it all depends on the posible victim's nature. If you can't stand up for yourself, you will be bullied (in russian "loh"); if you can stand up for yourself, most likely this bullie will try to bully you and you must prove it. I'm not a bully, in 10-11 years old was bullied myself, but since that time things changed drastically. Confidence in yourself, actually supported with strength, is the key. Agreed with Antiochus about

sometimes bullies react very viciously to the threat to their authority

Don't tend to threat his authority, BUT if he suddenly will tend to bully you - immediately show him that if he wanna fight, he get it (now muscles and training is a very important part ). Usually bullie go away, if not kick his ass and he will certainly go away.

gunned down, knifed, or beaten into hospital by crowd

This is slightly different case, you may don't know if this ********** is madman or not.
As my brother said, in life there are moments, when it is better to "run for it", even if you a tough guy.

(Swearing - Beirut)

[Subedei]

BTW its always nice to have steadfast friends, everything is easier with a good friend to fight beside you.

Oh how true! That helps best. I am sort of a semi-Albino...so a typical victim in public swimming pools and things like that. Thank god I am pretty tall myself & always had friends around me that would not be cool about people making fun of the color of my skin.

I am 32 by now and ...let us say not to "tiny & helpless", but still I tend to categorize people [maybe subconscious]in 3 groups sometimes:
1. The bullies
2. Bullies obidient helpers [the worst of them all]
3. People who would not care about me being different.

To all the kids that get bullied: One finding of mine is, that the former bullies end up not that "elite" when it comes to their advancement in life. Stereotype mode on: they grow fat, loose hair early, have stupid jobs or none at all & can't believe what became of the people they terrorized in the early days...Revenge is a dish best served cold....

[caravel]

More seriously though, people are saying "stand up for yourself" all the time in this thread. Great. Congratulations, you passed the test of life. You can stand up for yourself; you do the right thing and teach your children to stand up for themselves; you can withstand the pressure and show it to your fellow humans what it means to possess a healthy ego and make it meaningful. How about those that aren't? "Oh they're pathetic"? In my opinion that kind of attitude is almost as bad as the bullying itself. You're just contributing to the ostracism and isolation even if your intention is the very opposite.

How much of a chance that it'll go through like a movie plot and the bullied kid, after a good slap by his good-intentioned friend, "wakes up to reality," fights the status quo, and set his or her life in order?

I agree entirely. It is ok for certain people to say "stand up for yourself", but this is all dependent on personality. In the case of young children, simply ignoring the problem and telling them to stand up for themselves is not enough. A different approach is often needed, and this varies according to the child in question. Schools often lack an individual approach and this is why bullying is allowed to flourish.

[Moros]

We went last year to London with school, and me and a two friends and the guy where sleeping in one room in bed and breakfast place and there was a girl there that was calling him a girl pants and when we were back in belgium he started telling things about me that weren't true and all behind my back so I started bullieing him.

You're from Belgium? Where are you from I'm from Bilzen, Limburg. Currently studying in Leuven though...

Anyway On Topic:
I've always been one of the smallest if not the smallest from my class. Never got any bullying. But I think that was because I was quite "social", as Extroverted as can be. That and when I was young (junior) I was the kid who'd take any challenge for money or... My favourite was do or dare. I alway chose dare. I can't even remember one time I didn't do what I was told. So though some of the girls thought I might be err...disgusting, I was usually befreinded with nearly all the boys of my age. Never been bullied, I did stand up for some guys or grils I knew though. I was the smallest kid, but I was quite a violent kid too. Can't imagine ever losing a fight... and I did fight quite a lot. (I even kinda liked fighting, I remember that when I was about 12-11 years old a freind of mine got attacked by whole class of kids 2 years younger, neve knew why, jumped in and well the best 10 minutes of that year really...)

To my embarresement I must acknowledge that I however have bullied a kid, though. Being quite young isn't an excuse and the fact that it was a bit the parents fault isn't an excuse either. Kinda embarreses me. The boy had some psychological problems had Asperger and probably quite a lot more (He really should have gone to a specialized school). He was even more aggressive than me. And I think it was his agressiveness, what really caused him to be bullied. (He was the kind of kid who throw rocks/sand/... to you if had lost a game of tag,...)

I think that there are a few criteria upon which bullies decide who to bully:

1) a difference, something that seperates the boy(s)/girl(s) from the others. Not that different from what a lot of political leaders did in the past. How can you better take a good position in a community, or get the community following you than when you have a common enemy. Just like Alexander Chose the Persians, like Bismarck chose the French, like Bush chose...

If the bully feels insecure,... This will be a/the major factor

2) Easy Target. Someone who doesn' have many freinds, influence or ... Is a weak target and can easily be bullied. Bullying a single little is much easier than a group of Hell's Angels I've heard.

3) Past experiences. If the kids have bad experiences with each other they are more likely tio bully each other. (see above, cause in that example the kid had thrown rocks to my head. I beat him up the day after. And if that happens once it doesn't take as much for the second time.

4) Self confidence. A big factor too. Someone with little or no self confidence, won't stand up easily, usually isn't verry social. And usually doesn't give a too good first impression.

5) Strength. if a knight has to kill someone, anybody really, he'll rather kill a peasant than a king's guard. Unless he wants t achieve much prestige. Sometimes te strongest get attacked because of this. It is rare though. Thus mostly the weak get chosen

6) Appearance. Not only different people but also, ugly people get chosen rather rapidly. Can't recall any 'good looking' people get bullied. Except if he/she was the only one in a buch of damn bad looking $$$$$$'s.
People rather like being seen hanging around with the popular. Also those tend to be difficult to bully around as they have self confidence a lot of freinds and not much to make jokes about.

7) Joke material. If you can make a lot of jokes about someone. He's an easy target. It tends to get boring and it ain't easy, if it ain't fun for others to bully someone, as you'll lack support. Bullies need to have an audience or a support base. You'll rarely see bullies bullying on their own.

8)Money. If you have not much, you can't follow everyone else when it comes to fashion, movies, Games,... As such you can't always talk along. Or become different. Also jokes are easy. Thus again an easy target.

However the opposite can also be true. Though rich kids tend to be popular, this is far from always the case. Some can be rich, but might have ream severe parents, and get a bit dorky. (the one who have to wear silly costumes, need to learn to lay five instruments,...) The kid doesn't have many freinds, usually ain't the strongest, but has quite a bit of POCKET MONEY... I think you can think of the result yourself.

9) Sports. Those who are good at sports tend to be popular. It's like the prettyness of girls.



I think that's most of it...

How to not get bullied? HAve freinds. Make freinds. Good ones. Don't overly react nor ignore them. If they try to make fun of you, out funny them. If they to out strengthen you out smart them. And if they outsmart you, well they should be able to as they remain bullys. Which implies and proves them not being smart. Standing up? Yes that can work, not always. Some like a challenge or some like awaiting you with all their freinds. "Outnormalling" them and keeping your 'cool', is also a possibility, bullies can't be the ones who are more different. They can't as bullying the person who stands for 'the community' - they need to prove themselves to, or want be part of - will weaken their position and won't give them the confidence and securities they need. Another option is to out bully them, but this can be dangerous and bring things to a whole new level. You really need to know who you're up against and even more difficult have a realistic image of yourself, if you want to outbully the bully.

[Lorenzo_H]

Good grief! Never punch anyone in the windpipe, that's unless you'd like to spend some time at Her Majesties Pleasure [TM]

I wonder why I bother sometimes.

Oh believe me I would relax the "never" rule towards certain individuals. Besides, its not punching them, its actually just hugging them!

[Lorenzo_H]

I would like to comment on the following excerpts from an excellent post indeed.

6) Appearance. Not only different people but also, ugly people get chosen rather rapidly. Can't recall any 'good looking' people get bullied. Except if he/she was the only one in a buch of damn bad looking $$$$$$'s.
People rather like being seen hanging around with the popular. Also those tend to be difficult to bully around as they have self confidence a lot of freinds and not much to make jokes about.

I have seen one particular "good looking" guy get bullied. This is because he didn't live up to the expectations. People expected him to be a really cool character to go along with the looks, but he wasn't. He was a slightly insecure personality, and so he became a target.

Bullies need to have an audience or a support base. You'll rarely see
bullies bullying on their own.

Never has a comment been more true!

8)Money. If you have not much, you can't follow everyone else when it comes to fashion, movies, Games,... As such you can't always talk along. Or become different. Also jokes are easy. Thus again an easy target. However the opposite can also be true. Though rich kids tend to be popular, this is far from always the case. Some can be rich, but might have ream severe parents, and get a bit dorky. (the one who have to wear silly costumes, need to learn to lay five instruments,...) The kid doesn't have many freinds, usually ain't the strongest, but has quite a bit of POCKET MONEY... I think you can think of the result yourself.

I go to an Independant School, and so we have quite a few richies around. It doesn't make a big difference to us...

[Beefy187]

I was writing a massive long post but I sound too much like a religious bloke. So I decided to make it simple by making it more philosophical.

Imagine your self playing a game of chess. Your just enjoying the chess game with your friend. Soon as you start fighting back the bullies your fighting a game against him. He got more pieces then you. You cant win. Best way is just simply dont let him sit on the chair. Show them they cant play because your just better then the bullies. You dont have to be bloody magnificant at sports or get like 100 girlfriends in one go. Just stick to your philosophy and just show them your simply better then them morally.

Ignore them if they start spitting dirty words at you. Dont let him play your game.

I know this isnt the best way to solve the problem. But youll feel excellent in long run.

By the way I used to be a bully. It was fun back then to watch the reaction of the poor lad getting bullied. I guess I was able to enjoy bullying because I was in my country. Then I moved to other peoples country and look who the minority are. Me. Your just simply greater then them because you got wider view of the world. You know how lonely people feel. You know how pathetic it is to be in the "cool" group where you can be betrayed anytime. Find a real friend who you can trust. Pity the poor bully for his/her lack of honour and the blindness.

In my country you get taught to keep your self esteem low belive it or not. Im naturally arrogant but I try force my self to belive that "I suck, I smell, I got no life." But I always try to learn from passed mistakes and improve my self somehow. Prevents me from bullying somebody (Im too busy about improving my self) and im slowly gaining respect by doing that (Never been bullied by people other then my family members. Im pretty proud of that)

Right I know half of that didnt make sense.Eng is not my languege yet. And I didnt mean to be soo deep or write a new bible or something. So sorry if my post bothered anyone.

[Moros]

Never can something be to deep. Never.

While I'm not English either, I think most people get more than just the idea behind your post. I know I did. Just one question though, where are you from, if I may be so free to ask?

[HoreTore]

The enviroment of school is just a big rehearsal for life. And army the last rehearsal before the show. Remember that.

Not quite true... The school prepares you for life. The army beats the knowledge you have gained out from you, and send you back to a kindergarden level...

In your first years, you learn how to eat and pee by yourself. The army makes sure you can't even take a piss on your own...

[Husar]

Not quite true... The school prepares you for life.

That's a good one, they told us that joke at my school as well.

[HoreTore]

That's a good one, they told us that joke at my school as well.

They teach you what 1+2 is. That's all you ever need to be a CEO these days...

[Karo]

Following the advise I got from you guys, I stop bulliying the guy. I'm ignorin him it's better for evrey one.

@Moros ik woon in Krotrijk

[pevergreen]

Just one question though, where are you from, if I may be so free to ask?

Beefy is from Tokyo, Japan.

[Samurai Waki]

I was a bully throughout Grade School, I'm not sure if I enjoyed it. But I often played the role of "muscle" for the snickering pack of Spoiled Brats I thought were my friends (god, I didn't want to be on the other side). So I just played the role, I mean a lot of times I really did feel bad about punching some poor kid in the stomach, or smacking him across the head with my backpack. Then I switched schools my 6th year, and I was on the opposite side of the fence. I was the new kid, fresh meat. I got name called a lot, but nobody really seemed interested in actually taking it too the next level, until one stupid slob of a Kid really wanted to take it up a notch by drilling me in the arm with a mechanical pencil. I pretty much snapped at that point. I ended up taking his arm within an 8th of inch to the belt sander and nearly had his hand up to the wrist sanded off in Shop Class. Shut him up. The next kid was a real scrapper, tough as nails, he decided it would be funny to throw a basketball at the back of my head in Recess, Man that one really hurt. I ended up sending the poor kid to the hospital when I had the odd chance (and I took it) to Smash his face into the side of our Concrete sided school. Of Course I was expelled. But within a week I was back, and to exact my revenge on the Teacher who caught me, I sneakily made an Ice Ball from snow and permafrost on the ground, pelted her in the back of the head and knocked her nearly unconscious. She never saw it coming, nor did anyone else, thats how well I had timed it, like a Green Beret. She wasn't there the next day, or the next, or the next. Found out about a year late she had quit right after that. Man, that stung my already guilt ridden mind. Near the end of the year, I had built a reputation that I wasn't going to play coward to anyone, and that if you mess with the bull you'll get the horns. I had actually made pretty good friends with the Kid that I got in the face with the concrete wall, and I wasn't bothered throughout the rest of Middle School.

In Highschool I ended up moving again my first year, and into a private school. Everybody had better things to do than bully each other around (keep in mind these were the daughters/sons of really wealthy people) So it went rather smoothly, either that or I had a pretty good relation with both sides of the field, I'm still not entirely sure. I wasn't ever an outcast by either side, but I wasn't exactly "included". Still was an angry person for quite awhile thereafter. I had pretty much calmed down entirely after I turned eighteen and saw some of the world.

[Bijo]

Bullies are weaklings by nature. They come in different variants and they are aplenty. They are often emotionally insecure, in fear, ignorant, simple, and have a feeling of inferiority or they just need a "boost" of their ego, to secure their position, or it is whatever weak silly reason they have and that could count for many people who are controlled by things like emotions, envy, and so forth. You can see it back in many places and ages: the essence is there. It is simply nature that has designed animals that way. Yes, I am calling humans animals because it is simply what they are. Wanna fighdaboudit? ;)

And counterattacking can make things worse and maintain this kind of nature. It is wise to judge carefully what the outcomes could be and what the outcome most likely would be.

So, if you are a bully in whatever form or style, and you read this, or you have been one in the past, then remind yourself that you are or have been a weakling with an inferiority complex or an ego problem and you seek or sought security by attacking others. Or you are or were of course some kind of ignorant fool controlled by primitive emotions and instincts, just for fun or something like it.

[Faust|]

Bullies are weaklings by nature. They come in different variants and they are aplenty. They are often emotionally insecure, in fear, ignorant, simple, and have a feeling of inferiority or they just need a "boost" of their ego, to secure their position, or it is whatever weak silly reason they have and that could count for many people who are controlled by things like emotions, envy, and so forth. You can see it back in many places and ages: the essence is there. It is simply nature that has designed animals that way. Yes, I am calling humans animals because it is simply what they are. Wanna fighdaboudit? ;)

And counterattacking can make things worse and maintain this kind of nature. It is wise to judge carefully what the outcomes could be and what the outcome most likely would be.

So, if you are a bully in whatever form or style, and you read this, or you have been one in the past, then remind yourself that you are or have been a weakling with an inferiority complex or an ego problem and you seek or sought security by attacking others. Or you are or were of course some kind of ignorant fool controlled by primitive emotions and instincts, just for fun or something like it.

Um, no most are not "weaklings" at all... just deficient in some crucial aspect or another.

[pevergreen]

And counterattacking can make things worse and maintain this kind of nature. It is wise to judge carefully what the outcomes could be and what the outcome most likely would be.

Only part of the post I agree woth.

[naut]

just deficient in some crucial aspect or another.

Aye, well put. I do agree with Bijo in the fact they try to boost their ego.