Stupid Is As Stupid Does

[Crazed Rabbit]

Perhaps you heard about the kid who got pulled over in St Louis by a crazed Police Officer, and managed to videotape the whole thing:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1961.asp

Do you want to go to jail for some ****ing reason I come up with?

Try and talk back -- Talk back to me again. I bet I could say you resisted arrest or something. You want to come up with something? I come up with nine things. Do you wanna try something?

You know what? You don't take it out on me. You don't never take it out on a cop cause we will ruin your career and life and everything else you have coming before you. Okay?

So lovely, huh? Anyway, that clip was played far and wide and the officer got fired.

Now this is just a bad apple, right? Someone who's a disgrace to his fellow officers. Surely there glad such a jerk has been punished.

Or, not. Seems the kid was having death threats written about him on a St Louis Cop forum before this recent incident (as the kid has been assaulted and pulled over by police before, and got it on video).
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1967.asp

Now the death threats were probably just egoism, but the general attitude of punishing anyone challenging the police, rightly or wrongly, is worrying.

But maybe, you'd think they wouldn't act given the guy goes around with video running in his car the whole time.

Nope, they've got a bug about him, and it turns out they are staking out his house:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1988.asp

Great idea, huh? A nearby police force shown to have thugs on the payroll and you go and try to 'get back' at the citizen - who always has video running.

Crazed Rabbit

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I bet this gets less outrage than the taser incident.

[Proletariat]

Pretty disgusting. And good angle, Sasaki, I'm certain you're right.

[Papewaio]

Do a crime get a standard sentence.
Do a crime against a uniformed cop or one who has identified oneself correctly as one, get a harsher sentence.
Impersonate an officer of the law or an officer of the law committing a crime... should get the harshest sentences including removal of pension.

[Fragony]

Well at least your police occasionally has a use, quite unlike these compulsive ticketwrite-disorder patients (that just watch for 30 minutes when someone is slowly tortured to death) we have here.

[Husar]

That fits very well with the report I've seen on TV about some American officers scaring people away and getting really angry when you ask for papers to file a complaint.
I don't remember what they all did exactly but some said they didn't have any papers for complaints, others asked the person very harshly to leave(you know, big police officer with lots of muscle asking you to leave sounding really angry).
At the risk of having lots of angry Americans jumping on me, could this be due to the american psyche seeing uniformed people like firemen, policemen and army members, basically people who serve their country, as semi-heroes?
I mean if everybody thinks you're a hero, that should boast your ego quite a bit and some guys(certainly not all) might then think they're above the law.
Of course black sheep are everywhere, we've had some racists in a special unit here some years ago IIRC, you can never be 100% sure that someone who joins the police is a good guy at heart I guess though I'd like to see the bad ones all getting fired without mercy.

And Frag, you might say that those speeding tickets can save lives, you'll probably find more deaths due to car accidents than due to murder happening every year in the Netherlands. If people would just drive as fast as the speed limit allows, you wouldn't find as many officers controlling speed limits, it's quite easy actually. But it's always the fault of the other guy for preventing you(in a general sense) from breaking laws and rules, isn't it?

[Odin]

I bet this gets less outrage than the taser incident.

Is he african or Muslim? If yes it will be front page accross the country everyday for a month, if its some white kid, there wont be any outrage, wont even make the national headlines.

[InsaneApache]

Is he african or Muslim? If yes it will be front page accross the country everyday for a month, if its some white kid, there wont be any outrage, wont even make the national headlines.

but it did.

[Fragony]

And Frag, you might say that those speeding tickets can save lives, you'll probably find more deaths due to car accidents than due to murder happening every year in the Netherlands. If people would just drive as fast as the speed limit allows, you wouldn't find as many officers controlling speed limits, it's quite easy actually. But it's always the fault of the other guy for preventing you(in a general sense) from breaking laws and rules, isn't it?

Nobody ever got killed eating a croissant in the train, or throwing a paper bag in the bin after feeding the ducks or replacing a tire, people did get fined for it though. Why you ask? because they can, there is always a rule lying around somewhere. If they can give a fine, they will, no matter how unreasonable it is. On the other hand, if you are slowly tortured to death, they just stand around not having a clue what to do, their brains aren't adjusted to that kind of stuff.

oh, my favorite, got a fine for mobbing up, we were just sheltering from the rain. Useless gits, fine fine fine but run away screaming from 12 year old boys.

[Husar]

On the other hand, if you are slowly tortured to death, they just stand around not having a clue what to do, their brains aren't adjusted to that kind of stuff.

Yes, I'm not saying there isn't any room for improvement, I'm just saying that some of the laws actually make sense and it's ususlly not the police making them, they're just there to enforce them.

oh, my favorite, got a fine for mobbing up, we were just sheltering from the rain. Useless gits, fine fine fine but run away screaming from 12 year old boys.

That reminds me, I usually greet them, to show them my appreciation about their presence(for example when I went to the loveparade), you might want to try that.

Makes me wonder whether they'd think I'm scum for doing that in some countries.

[Odin]

but it did.

Odd, 1st I heard of it was on this message board and I watch national news everynight and read plenty online.

[Sir Moody]

I think one of my favourite shows got it about right with this quote.

Audrey: Well, statistically speaking, law enforcement attracts a certain kind of male personality.
Matt: Ohhh. What personality would that be?
Audrey: Dogs.
Matt: And the female personality?
Audrey: Bitches. We keep it in the canine family.

(bonus points to the person who gets the show)

[Fragony]

That reminds me, I usually greet them, to show them my appreciation about their presence(for example when I went to the loveparade), you might want to try that.

HA thanks for the tip but it would probably come of as a bit unsincere. Most likely they will fine me for sexual harassment. It's a moneymaking-machine so let's just treat it as such.

by the way, did I ever tell you that the dutch police is completily useless?

[Whacker]

Bah. I don't like cops, never have and never will. I've never been arrested, handcuffed, or anything like that but I still don't like cops. I've met quite a few in my life, both when in and out of uniform (hell I'm related to one), and they have all, bar none, been egotistical, controlling holes with chips on their shoulders and a sense of self-righteousness and divine authority. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but not much honestly. As to the comments that I always hear from people about "there are mostly good police, and a few bad ones", my response is always that I seem to have the misfortune to run into the bad ones.

[CrossLOPER]

He got fired? Is America out of Medals?

[Fragony]

Is the world out of other problems?

[drone]

I heard about this a few weeks ago. The kid has his car wired up for audio/video, and seems to be expecting to be harassed. I don't know if he started this after his first encounter with the drunk off-duty cop, but he seems to think that they have his number (and apparently, they do). Even paranoids have enemies.

This whole series of events doesn't really surprise me. He got a cop in trouble (the drunk one), and the mentality seems to be to get him back. The fact that they keep giving him problems and keep getting busted for it leads me to believe they are both vindictive and fairly incompetent. The kid knows his rights, and resists the police when they try to infringe on those rights, which just pisses them off. Kudos to him for trying, but I have a feeling this will end badly. He should be buying Christmas presents for the local press guys, they are his best chance of survival.

[Crazed Rabbit]

At the risk of having lots of angry Americans jumping on me, could this be due to the american psyche seeing uniformed people like firemen, policemen and army members, basically people who serve their country, as semi-heroes?

A-HAhahahaha!

No insult to any police board members, but the public generally does not see police in the same light as firemen and soldiers who are usually always deeply respected. Police are not. Probably because they don't often save your life; they fine you and a lot of them do stuff like this.

CR

[Louis VI the Fat]

What outrageous behaviour from the police.

This sort of police brutality stories seem to pop up rather regularly lately. Bah, few things tick me off as much as abuse of power and authority by men in uniforms.

Are these isolated incidents or is it endemic? Is abuse of power by the police widespread in America? Anybody got any links or numbers?

[Whacker]

This sort of police brutality stories seem to pop up rather regularly lately. Bah, few things tick me off as much as abuse of power and authority by men in uniforms.

We're of the exact same mind. Nothing gets my blood boiling quite like abuse of power or authority. The other thing that ranks right up there is when law enforcement refuses to admit that they were very much in the wrong, or crossed certain lines when a video goes public. There's always some bullcrap "extenuating circumstances" or we "don't have the full picture". I call complete bull here. This, coupled with the American government's fearmongering and general increasing of police and state powers recently does nothing to help this.

Are these isolated incidents or is it endemic? Is abuse of power by the police widespread in America? Anybody got any links or numbers?

I can't provide any numbers of facts, only opinions. It is my personal perception that cops in general tend to be scum, enjoying throwing their weight around, and only have their own and fellow officer's best interests in mind. I've seen it both personally and one only has to look through youtube for examples. In conversations with my family members and friends, it would appear that they largely share this view. As a side note, I (we) are almost all middle class caucasians who dress, look, and act "normally", whatever normal means. I can only say this anecdotally also, but beyond my family and friends, others I've talked to in passing on this seem to share the same opinion. Ironically whenever a cop dies in the line of duty, the media always makes a huge deal out of it, when it's my impression that most of us could care less.

/shrug

[Sasaki Kojiro]

All the cops I've met have been good people.

[Husar]

A-HAhahahaha!

No insult to any police board members, but the public generally does not see police in the same light as firemen and soldiers who are usually always deeply respected. Police are not. Probably because they don't often save your life; they fine you and a lot of them do stuff like this.

CR

Thanks for the explanation, almost thought so but then I really wasn't sure.

[Csargo]

Are these isolated incidents or is it endemic? Is abuse of power by the police widespread in America? Anybody got any links or numbers?

Most of the time it can't be proven, even if there was wrong doing it's the policeman's word over the citizen's and the police will always win that fight. This is a special case because the man had a dash cam and recorded the whole event, but most people don't do that.

Power goes to peoples heads that's the best way to describe it. When it's almost impossible for them to get caught in the act they'll do as they please.

[Xiahou]

Most of the time it can't be proven, even if there was wrong doing it's the policeman's word over the citizen's and the police will always win that fight. This is a special case because the man had a dash cam and recorded the whole event, but most people don't do that.

Good point. Imagine how this would've gone down without cameras present. The kid probably would have been brought in pepper-sprayed and charged with resisting arrest and every other charge on down the line.

Clearly, these people give cops a bad name. I don't think they're representative of all or even most police officers- but nonetheless, there are far too many like this.

[drone]

Apparently, Chicago has a problem (and CNN.com editors read the Backroom )
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/27...nts/index.html

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Between 2002 and 2004, for example, more than 10,000 complaints -- many of them involving brutality and assault -- were filed against Chicago police officers.

Yet only 18 of them resulted in any meaningful disciplinary action, according to Craig Futterman, a lawyer who uncovered these statistics while researching a client's claim.

[Watchman]

As a random observation, but it is apparently a relatively common view here that at least the local level of US law enforcement has an unduly high amount of A) incompetence B) thugs and bullies. Especially among our cops, who are pretty clean on both issues.

[Whacker]

Good point. Imagine how this would've gone down without cameras present. The kid probably would have been brought in pepper-sprayed and charged with resisting arrest and every other charge on down the line.

Honestly mate, I don't think it matters. Taping will cause public outrage, but law enforcement administration and the government is always quick to step in and "correct" the "ignorant" public on the matter. The cop(s) were just doing their jobs, we don't know the whole situation, there were extenuating circumstances, they were within their rights and duties, etc etc etc. All kinds of spin and BS for actions that are clearly out of control. Couple this with how the public outrage often quickly dies down and attention goes elsewhere, and you have a situation where even public scrutiny and review doesn't make a difference. It's scary.

[macsen rufus]

That reminds me, I usually greet them, to show them my appreciation about their presence(for example when I went to the loveparade), you might want to try that.

I did that once, with Dutch police. It got me and my friend pulled over and searched. So as all the little bags of hash came out, I forgot we were in A'dam and was getting a bit worried... in the end they just said "Good, no guns. Oh, and Coffeeshop XYZ is cheaper for hash, enjoy your holiday..."

[AntiochusIII]

I always believed that, whether the police are good or bad, the group-mentality is the worst perpetrator of police brutality.

It's like in the army, really. You don't tattletale; you don't challenge your superiors; you don't dig up your group's dirt for that annoying journalist -- and the punishment for those who speak up can range from ostracism to downright brutality. It's loyalty, man, and **** the law.

That's why when the bad stuff happens police (and army and a lot of authorities) tend to cover it up and hope it goes away instead of pursuing justice.

Other people and other groups do it too but it's much, much worse when the people doing it are supposed to be "servants of the people" in principle.

Hence why I'll never join the army or the police force or anything that might put me in this precarious position of choosing between my moral death and my physical and mental torment.

I'm also surprised to hear so many tales of police brutality in the United States. I don't know if the perception is a general reality or publicized isolated incidents...