Cataclysm Mechanics Draft

[FactionHeir]

Of course, Ignoramus could always win in his rebellion and the whole thing could be averted.

That's the alternative, but how likely is that, unless Dassel and Bavaria all march up to Swabia?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Don't give him ideas.

[Privateerkev]

Something tells me Bavaria is going to be plenty busy without spending valuable time and resources playing king-maker in Swabia.

As for Dassel, he is fairly far away and has an army to drag with him. If Hans just takes cavalry, he'll make it to Swabia before Dassel.

It will be interesting to see what Dassel does with his "Army of Papal Stompitude". He can always try to float it to Outremer. I am sure the Kaiser and King would give him a warm and friendly reception. ^_^

[GeneralHankerchief]

First I have to beat the damn Pope before we can get into aftermaths. Genoa was no picnic and we actually had a numerical advantage in that one.

[Privateerkev]

Good point

I hereby rename the army, "Army of Eventual Papal Stompitude".

I have every confidence that you will eventually prevail in your quest to rack up the most "Pope kills" in a PBM.

You can have little "funny hat" silhouettes on the side of your saddle.

[Tamur]

94 posts? on a Saturday? good heavens you people are lunatics (meaning, of course, that you post by the light of the moon, not that you belong in an asylum. Never that.)

err, so, anyone care to give a summary of the current state of The Draft for those of us with football-playing sons and swimming daughters?

[Northnovas]

94 posts? on a Saturday? good heavens you people are lunatics (meaning, of course, that you post by the light of the moon, not that you belong in an asylum. Never that.)

err, so, anyone care to give a summary of the current state of The Draft for those of us with football-playing sons and swimming daughters?

I was actually amazed at the amount for one day. It must be an important thread to the PBEM. Draft!? I don't read the fine legal print I will just hang on for the ride.

[TinCow]

Draft!? I don't read the fine legal print I will just hang on for the ride.

It is my intention that people won't ever need to read anything except the SPOILER section under their character's name. The rest of this is a simple explanation of the mechanics I will use to figure out how to implement peoples' decisions. It's more for my benefit than anyone else's. All you guys need to do is tell me what you want to do. I will use these mechanics (and some other stuff) to figure out whether you are successful and what happens.

[Cecil XIX]

Tincow, I think there needs to be some mechanism for constructing buildings. I know it might seem silly to build Alchemist's Labs and Cathedrals during a cataclysm but every avatar has different reasons and priorities that could make such decisions seem perfectly reasonable.

At the very least we should be able to upgrade our barracks, towers, and walls. Seems odd that our characters wouldn't do that, especially when some cities can't even produe crossbow militia.

[TinCow]

There already is. Read the section entitled Construction/Repair.

[Cecil XIX]

..Huh. Must have missed the construction part of that section.

[econ21]

I've been thinking a bit more about the economic model in the cataclysm.

It may be a bit parsimonious. I tallied up cities with players and most have 0 or 1. (Outremer has 3 players and no cities). With one city, you get one unit of militia per turn. That may be enough if we let the AI bumble along. But if we set up multiple Apollonia style battles, we will have to rely on the gamesmaster topping up armies. That's not such a bad thing, but it just means that the incentives for players to hold on to settlements is very low - one militia per turn probably does not warrant the garrison required to hold the city. Perhaps one point per castle and two per city?

I still think the rewards to scrapping buildings are too high. In the normal game, if you scrap a leather tanner you get 200 gold - enough to buy one militia. Under the cataclysm mechanics, you get 3 militia (takes three turns). It will also be a pain to implement as buildings that exist don't show you how long they take to build (if you scrap a market, you'd have to go to the browser to see how long it takes to build as you won't get the option to rebuild one - you need a grain exhange first). I would suggest a flat 1 point per building scrapped.

Personally, I think the best thing would be for TinCow to play it by ear, rather than feel too constrained by mechanics. It's only when he sees the armies the AI brings (which he may have to spawn) that he will be able to judge how much resources we should have.

[TinCow]

Part of the reason I wanted to make the destruction of buildings more profitable was because it would encourage people to do it. One of the reasons we decided to create the cataclysm in the first place was to set the HRE back a significant amount, and thus provide more of a challenge through to the end of the game. I figured that if we had to rebuild lots of structures, that would help.

I agree on the flexibility though. Maybe I'll make some places generate more income than others, or perhaps some people with nice financial traits will find themselves with more wealth. Also, I highly encourage people to think of different ways to recruit that do not involve money. Take a look at your traits and try to think of IC ways you could assemble armies without paying for them. As long as they are logical, I will allow them.

DO NOT PLAY THIS BY ANY STRICT RULES. USE YOUR IMAGINATION AND I WILL IMPLEMENT IT AS BEST AS I CAN.

[TinCow]

I have been thinking about people gaining the titles of their prisoners and other such things. That proposal was pretty rough and frankly I don't want to force a system on the rest of the game. Therefore I have come up with a solution that I think works pretty well.

The political situation will likely be very, very different at the end of the cataclysm in 1340 than it was in 1300 at the last Diet Session. We will likely need to reform a lot of the Charter to reflect any shifting of power that occurs. Therefore, I am going to implement changes to the influence system that will take effect ONLY during the 1340 Diet Session. They will be as follows:

(1) Avatars will gain ALL of the influence of any prisoner they have in 1340. Avatars who are themselves prisoners will have 0 influence in 1340. This influence can exceed the normal influence cap.
(2) Counts that rebel against their Duke will gain the +3 influence of a Duke, rather than the +1 of a Count IF: (a) They are free (not a prisoner) and (b) Still control their Capital settlement.

This will allow for a temporary shift in the balance of power to favor people who successfully sieze extra power for themselves during the cataclysm. This may help them meet the 2/3 requirements for a Charter Amendment which would be necessary to make any permanent changes to the game.

Opinions?

[Ferret]

I like that idea, it would certainly make something major happen easier (if only I could capture the Kaiser...) and not make the political positions change around too much (if evryone captures the poistion off the capturer etc).

[GeneralHankerchief]

(2) Counts that rebel against their Duke will gain the +3 influence of a Duke, rather than the +1 of a Count IF: (a) They are free (not a prisoner) and (b) Still control their Capital settlement.

What about non-Counts?

[econ21]

(if only I could capture the Kaiser...)

Crumbs ... I am glad I teleported you out of Outremer.

[Ferret]

Crumbs ... I am glad I teleported you out of Outremer.

I was only joking, plus you'd beat me anyway

[AussieGiant]

mmmm, very interesting idea TC, very interesting indeed

[Privateerkev]

As long as it is only for the 1340 session, I like it.

[TinCow]

What about non-Counts?

I meant it to include anyone in Dietrich's position. Let's revise it to "Electors that rebel against their Dukes will gain the +3 influence of a Duke, rather than the any other bonus they currently receive IF: (a) They are free (not a prisoner) and (b) Still control their Capital settlement."

As long as it is only for the 1340 session, I like it.

Definitely. The point is so that the entire group of players (rather than just econ21 and I) can figure out how to sort out this entire mess when it is all over. I don't want to tell people what the long-term ramifications will be for the Reich, I want us all to figure it out in the usual way. This simply gives the rebels a chance of changing the order of things. Without it, the Dukes could easily slap the rebels back into line, which wouldn't make sense if the rebels are actually successful. Of course, if the rebels aren't successful, the Dukes will not be threatened much by them at all. Notice that it will work both ways. If Hans captures both Wolfgang and Dietrich, he'll have a 100% guarantee of having all of Swabia's voting strength behind him. It also gives an added incentive NOT to execute an avatar.

[Stuperman]

Given that Fredericus is in a castle, on an island, his situation is unique, if I read the rules correctly, I'll have 1 income per turn if I stay loyal, and 0 if I rebel, and no chance of recruiting boats, ever?

[TinCow]

Actually, you would have 1 income if you rebelled, because it is a castle.

Don't worry, though. I will allow for people to trade wealth and send each other reinforcements. That's likely to be the best way for allies to help one another. One of the reasons I gave Dukes added income for each of their loyal Counts is so that they can in turn redistribute it to the men who need it.

For you specifically, Lothar will do his best to keep you alive if you remain loyal. Though remaining on Ajaccio might get... interesting. If you need to escape, I will make sure you have that option. Remember, there will ALWAYS be a 'safe' route every turn, though it might require you to lose some of your army, wealth, etc. in some circumstances. You won't get strong by running, but you'll be alive.

[FactionHeir]

As long as you otherwise don't give rebelling characters too many bonuses, such as extra troops (or higher chance of getting extra troops) or more positive random events, the influence bonus should be OK with me.

I suppose this bonus also requires them to actually announce a capital?

As for wanting all of Swabia behind me...Hans believes in Harsh Justice. Any who oppose him face the gallows. That allows for new blood to come in that knows what fate awaits a rebel.

[Stuperman]

I don't mind running to fight another day, and need some practice at sally battle's anyhow. I just didn't want to get stuck for all 10 turns with no re-enforcements.