Gosh, I've posted so much today. I've been really enjoying reading back through the threads and posting my bit to each, it seems. Pray don't think me a spammer - it won't always be like this. I couldn't resist adding something to this one, even though it seems everyone has had their say.

I was a little shocked at Caravel's remarks about JHI. I guess it's just from not using them. So they are a favourite unit, although really I find them too powerful. I think the discussion about under-rated units was more interesting.

Once the JHI appear in my Turkish army I know it's all over for everyone else. If I've come through from Early there will be a Master Armourer in Constantinople to help them along. Really, I do find them too powerful - so usually limit myself to 2 per army, unless its taking the Mongols head on in big numbers. I've used them on everyone - and chew up Halberdiers and CMAA with them.

Perhaps Caravel should try out this Turk army combination - 6 JHI, 3 Xbows, 2 THA (+2 from Tripoli), 2 TF (+2 from Anatolia), 2 AHC (+2 from Armenia) and one Ghulam BG General. Go head on against army you choose.

Position the THA wide and advanced, with the AHC behind them. (Scorpion is good for this, but leaves the missiles in the wrong place, so you have to bring them up before advancing - plus the JHI are too deeply formed. It's good to use as it is sometimes, though) Place the TF wide and advanced in front of the infantry lines, next the XBows centre and front, with the JHI behind them. Leave space between the Xbows for the JHI to come through.

First flank with the THA, with the AHC moving up behind them, and bring the foot up. If the enemy, as usual, brings missile units to the front keep the TF moving up while the Xbows start firing - the JHI should be still out of range. Then charge any enemy archers with the TF, followed by the JHI pointed at the enemy infantry and cavalry. If the TF engage with infantry withdraw them, and stop them just behind the action.

Don't give the enemy archers time to target the JHI with leisurely missile exchanges. Point one JHI unit at the RK king or general and keep them advancing. Use the THA, who should be flanked to be slightly behind the enemy line, to pursue routers, and clean up archers halted behind the infantry lines. When not busy they can fire at any available targets. The AHC, also flanked and behind, following the THA, will take any RKs or Arbs that have kept out of the action. Also use them to pursue, or to break heavy infantry that's engaged from the front with JHI. The Turk Xbows should now be behind everyone else, targeted at any non-engaged enemy units. Battles can be over in 5 minutes.

Like I say - too powerful really.

You may need to pause and micro manage a bit at first, keeping the THA from getting too entangled. With practice this is one oiled fluid attack that rolls over everything.

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I've just set this up as a Custom Battle, on Flatinland01, Arid, as described:

the French, all silver armour: 1 RK +3, 1 RK 0, 1 CK 0, 2 MS 1, 2 Halbs 0, 2 CS 1, 2 CMAA 0, 2 Archers 1, 3 PXBows 0 (no Arbs available... Hmm) - Cost 78,000
- that's better than any crusade army I've ever seen

Turks, all silver armour: 1 GB +3, 2 AHC +2, 2 THA +2, 2 TF +2, 3 XBows 0, 6 JHI 0 - Cost 75,000
- that's weaker than any Turk army that I'd have brought through from Early

The French immediately ran into the top right corner as I was setting up the Turks, as described - that took a little time. I positioned them while the French waited, then moved the whole army in front of the French with Ctrl A, and Alt on a lateral movement, fine tuning the placement one everyone was over.

I couldn't flank on the right as planned, due to the French in a corner. There I had to bring up a JHI as the French advanced a PavXBow then sent a CS chasing the Turk cavalry on the cramped right hand side. Engaging the CS with the JHI I moved the THA and AHC around behind them.

On the left the French advanced Archers and Halbs, and somehow a Halb found the AHC over there as I was repositioning them, so I let them fight, and charged them from the rear with the THA. I did that a few times. The other Halb advanced, in line with the French CMAA and CS coming forward.

Centre and left the Turk infantry advanced as described, with the JHI coming through the XBows to engage the advancing French CS and CMAA and other Halb. I had grouped them, and clicked behind the French line to advance them in line. The French CK charged in, while their missile units went behind. I attacked these with the THA and AHC now behind on the right, with the GB now threading through to do the same. The MS pushed through on the left, trying to get at the XBows and TF. Then the French general (RK Val 3) charged through the centre.

The battle was over in about 5 minutes.

Turks - killed 649, taken 314 - Men Lost 353. French routed, general killed.

The CMAA were simply shredded. The CS lasted a bit longer before fleeing. The Halbs did ok, but the centre one broke and ran, stopped, and was the last unit to flee in the end, fairly intact. The AHC and THA vs Halb battle lasted the longest, with the AHC losing half the unit before the Halb broke.

I did have to Pause more than usual, and lost most of a TF who was caught by an advancing CMAA. The JHI lost over a third of their numbers - 225 casualities. I would usually expect to do much better than this, and lose more like 60 - 100 max in such a high octane battle. I'm a bit out of practice, and this was rushed for demo purposes. (That's my excuse. Heh).

As I said, I grouped the remaining 5 JHI and clicked for them to move behind the French line. As a result they didn't charge, and the initial contact showed the CS, CMAA and CK winning their battles - but that soon changed - the JHI ate them. Ditto the Knights. The French simply collapsed.

I've saved the battle, and taken a screen shot ... if there's anywhere to put such things. Anyways, you can try this out for yourself, if you're interested. It's not personal Caravel - I'm just keen for you to see what an amazing unit the JHI are.

If I've bored anyone with this - sorry.