Spearmen

[Heidrek]

I just can't get into these guys. I find their lack of offense a real pain. Sure they can be useful for protecting archers/artillery, but all they really do is provide a low morale meat wall that slowly dies. Most of the time I'd rather have an offensive Sword or Axe unit instead of a spear so that at least they could deal some damage back or kill the attacker.

I know they are good against cavalry, but it seems to me that even then they still eventually lose, or the Cav. just breaks off and moves around them. They are weak when out of position, so can't respond to changes on the battlefield.

I'm sure I'm missing something here. About the only time I seem to use them effectiely is to hold a bridge or castle gate. What am i missing?

[MJF]

true, their offense sucks. however, the other alternatives are no better.

if you ignore spears and have a front line of swordsmen, several cavalry charges to your line will cause massive casualties. therefore, the all sword approach is not (IMO) really feasible.

pikemen (except Swiss Armoured Pikemen) are similar to spearmen except they have less armour and so die quicker. best to ignore these unless you have no choice or are bored and going to win anyway.

the only real viable alternative is to have polearms and swords. this is highly effective. polearms are infinitely better than spears in many regards. however, they do have their downfalls.

firstly, they only come in 60 men per units cf 100. so you're losing 40 men per unit. assuming you might have 4-6 spear units in your chosen first 16 units, thats 200 men down.

secondly, polearms are best used at charging. this is fine if you're on the offense. however for defence, it can mean that your front line disappears into this mess of units all over the shop. the flanks and rear of your polearms units are now highly vulnerable to a charge. spears on the other hand are best at standing, so although you run the risk of being flanked by the enemy moving their forces around your whole army, if you can successfully remaneuver your troops, you present a coherent front line.

personally, i always have about 4 spears, 2 pole arms and anywhere from 2-4 swords (depending on how much cavalry or archers i want). polearms can then be moved around to counter any flanking moves (most likely by cavalry which are prime targets for your polearms)

just a few of my thoughts anyway. btw, i only use chivalric spearmen. all others (except maybe Gothic if you get them) are rubbish. feudal seargents are just peasants with pointy sticks - completely useless.

[caravel]

Unit's of Chivalric Sergeants or Saracen Infantry make superb defenders against cavalry heavy armies of the Mongols. Position them on a hill with lines of arbalests and archers behind and the enemy will never get near your missile units. It is still a good idea to deploy polearms as flankers. Halberdiers in particular can concentrate on killing if they have spears to take the brunt of a charge. You can bring the halbs in on the flanks of the cavalry once the charge has been absorbed. Personally I find that in defensive battles my Spears last the longest and gain the most valour. I usually have to reinforce my other units and bring on fresh cavalry or archers with full quivers rather than replace my spear units.

The trick with spears is to form a solid wall and leave them on hold position and hold formation. Don't expect them to kill, as they're there to hold. Bring in flanking units in their support and protect the flanks of the end units at all costs. I sometimes place one end of my formation near a wood so that any cavalry trying to sneak around that way have to pass through the trees. It is a good idea to have some Halberdiers, Militia Sergeants, Ghazis or Woodsmen hiding there.

[drone]

Spears are boring, but they give you a solid base and will usually hold the line for a decent amount of time. Vanilla spearmen are kinda worthless, generally you want the better spear units available to your faction.

The trick with spears is to form a solid wall and leave them on hold position and hold formation. Don't expect them to kill, as they're there to hold.

This is key, you want your spear units in nice tidy blocks. During combat, if you look at a unit closely you will see the front sprites moving around in combat animations, while those in the back just sit there. With spear units, if the formations are clean, the first 2(3?) rows will fight (4 for pikes, I think), and they get other bonuses as well.

Generally what I try to do is to tie up the enemy cavalry and other high power units with my spears, give them some sword support, and bring around my cav and heavy hitters on the flanks. The spears bog down his attack, and pin the units until my flankers can hit them in the side or rear. Not a very exciting job, but one that needs doing.

[LadyAnn]

The weakness of spear units compared to swords/axes/halberd is criticized. However, they cited historic dearth of spearmen in medieval time: until the Swiss used it again, spear was not the weapon of choice during the time frame. Had they made spearmen more powerful, the 100-men (in medium unit size) spear units would beat sword units, and everybody will choose to use spears. That would be a historical aberation.

They could make spearmen more interesting, but MTW engine lacks the means to do so. In STW and subsequent games based on STW battle engine, they introduced ways that made spearmen way of fighting different than swordmen units.

Annie

[Heidrek]

They could have just made them a 60 man unit instead of 100 but a bit stronger. Or give them slightly better attack/defense without over powering them. Or give thema better vs Cavalry bonus etc.

The Greeks, who first developed Phalanx fighting, used spears over swords as their primary attacking weapon.

[Senatus Populusque Romanus]

it depends on the situation mate.
I mean, if you have good general, your spearmen won't rout.

Or if you can, u can also use them as flanking units.

[seireikhaan]

Spears are not best used for flanking. Sure, they CAN do it, but there are many more units that do it much better than them. Plus, you're wasting their best attribute, which is holding lines, and exposing them potentially to being flanked themselves if the situation disolves a bit. Plus, the utter size of the unit is somewhat cumbersome to manuever to the rear of an opponent.

Plus, in this situation, which he was asking for, the enemy general was actually slightly better, so that kinda nullfies his general.

[Martok]

Spears are not best used for flanking. Sure, they CAN do it, but there are many more units that do it much better than them. Plus, you're wasting their best attribute, which is holding lines, and exposing them potentially to being flanked themselves if the situation disolves a bit. Plus, the utter size of the unit is somewhat cumbersome to manuever to the rear of an opponent.

Correct. With very few exceptions, spearmen should almost always be in the center of your formation, never on the flanks. I personally like to back them up with a couple units of medium/heavy infantry (such as FMAA or CMAA), so as to counter any sword/polearm infantry the enemy may throw at my spearmen.

[caravel]

Remember if you do decide to use spears in flank attack, take them out of held formation to improve their attack and charge.

[Heidrek]

I read in another thread that Spears get a +1/rank charge bonus? If so, they'd have a massive charge on them and could be used as effective shock troops. Spread 4 deep, witha base Charge of 5, they'd end up charging with greater impact than CMAA's, then after the inital chage falling back into their stable "die slowly" style.

I did crack the enemy army in the end, though it was much harder than I expected it would be. The Crossbowmen did it for me in the end. With an altitude advantage, they were able to outdistance the enemy Turk Horse and foot archers, and their slow but strong rate of fire meant they still had missiles left long after the longbows had run out.

Lack of fast cavalry hurt me in this battle. I had no real way of chasing down the Turk horse. Likewise, lack of dedicated swords was a problem. A couple more units of CMAA would have helped a lot I think.

That said, the Halb's did a great job as all round infantry and were particularyly devastating against the Camel units. I had a unit of 40 nearly exhausted swiss Halb's engage a fresh Camel unit sand they had outed it in about 30 seconds.

they key was hammering the Saracens with missile fire before engaging, and then mobbing them. Once I got my archers in place they ripped into the Saracen infantry, giving my infantry the edge they needed.