KOTRfix Poll

[Cecil XIX]

Facionheir, I've noticed a problem with 1.29. There's trigger for 'badsiegedefender' where general has a 60% of gaining one point if he stays behind enemy walls.

This means that a general must sally immediately upon being sieged to avoid getting 'badsiegedefender'. Since the AI rarely assauls the walls immediately, if a general chooses to wait and repel the assault the net result will often be to make him worse at defending cities.

Players shoult not be penalized for having certain styles. This is like giving a general a building point penalty for building more siege engines.

[FactionHeir]

That is a tough point to be honest.
The initial trigger was giving that trait when you lose as defender in a siege battle. Well, when you lose, you are always dead, so that didn't really do much at all.

In an effort to implement this trait, I read through the descriptions some more and it seems to imply (i.e. from "Cowers behind walls") that this could be given for not sallying instead. Note that this is a 60% chance and that it takes 2 points to get the trait in the first place (and even then it will reduce GoodSiegeDefender before it can even give you BadSiegeDefender, i.e. needs 4 points minimum), so if you are lucky, you can wait a long time till you even pick the trait up.

Also, if you are assaulted in your settlement and win (which against the AI tends to be terribly easy) you get a 100% chance for GoodSiegeDefender which has a threshold of only 1 and will immediately cancel a point of BadSiegeDefender.
See it as a balance for giving GoodSiegeDefender only if you don't wait too long for the AI to attack you.

In 1.3, there was a slight change to the trigger that it only applies to characters that are at least "Brave".

[Cecil XIX]

Well, how about getting two points of goodsiegedefender for a successful siege? I just don't like a net gain of one point in badsiegedefender because of waiting for the enemy.

[FactionHeir]

The problem with giving two points of GoodSiegeDefender is that if you are attacked immediately and win, you get 2 points rather than one. The current script system is very limited in terms of what you can and cannot do. I found the above the best balance that could be struck without leaving traits out completely.

Besides, the AI always attacks you within 2 turns (i.e. you ending turn twice) of starting a siege if it isn't completely outnumbered unless it is a cavalry only force, so you normally (i.e. in most cases) won't even get 1 point of BadSiegeDefender if you wait that long and will still get the point of GoodSiegeDefender if you win the battle, giving you a net of +1.

See it this way: What would your fellow soldiers and citizens think if you had a decent force within the walls and communication to the outside world but refused to sally forth and instead wait and let them starve to death or be killed by disease? They certainly would not think as highly of you, thus reducing your command rating ever so slightly when defending against a siege (i.e. lower morale).

[econ21]

There's a 2/3 majority to update the game, so let's do that.

I'm closing this thread as I think it is the only way I can close the poll. Discussion can continue in the OOC thread.