Questions questions - Of halberds, generals and the like...

[mir]

Hi guys and gals, here's to the start of a great week!

Had a bit of time to devote myself to M2TW over the weekend and finally engaged in my first (ever!) battle against the Mongols. The first wave was destroyed using Assassins but the second wave proved more resilient so I decided to move in and wipe them out.

Mainly HA army (Sipahi and Turcoman) with Lancers, Armenian Cavalry and Generals in support. I annihilated the first stack of four with 400 casualties. Now am advancing towards the second stack with two stacks of mine.

Oddly enough, the Mongols are just sitting there doing nothing.

Incidentally, their Faction Leader is still stuck on the river and not doing anything. As I mentioned in a previous post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95682) I can't attack him or target him with anything including my Assassins and armies...

Anyway, I've some questions if anyone can help answer them:

1) In my battles against cavalry, I've realised that my Janissaries don't seem to have much effect as my Dismounted Sipahi Lancers. Is this true for all halberd wielding troops - that they're more useful deployed against infantry especially spearmen than against cavalry?

2) How are losses in a General's unit replenished? I think retraining is for armour and weapon upgrades. Not for unit strength. Take my Sultan for example, his unit lost 20 or 30 men in one battle. I forgot about him for a while and when I checked on him again, he was back at full strength.

Do General's bodyguards "recharge" over time?

-mir-

[Cheetah]

1, Halberds have AP bonus, whereas DSL have anti-cav bonus (IIRC). That said, halberds should be fine vs heavily armoured cavs, esp. JHI which is the best of all halberds. Halberds though cannot take a charge, so you have to pin down enemy cavs with something else.

2, Yes, they automatically "recharge".

[TheLastPrivate]

only spears/pikes have actually multiplier against cavalry. Halberds do not have ANY bonuses against cavalry itself but its attack animation and AP is deemed well for anti-cavalry purposes.

[FactionHeir]

Not quite right.

1. JHI have light spear bonusses on their halberd, so are +4 vs cavalry and usually very effective against them too unless they are being charged. Dismounted landers have a +8 bonus and shields, so tend to hold up better against a unit that attempts to move through them.

2. General's units slowly recover over time and cannot be retraniend unless you mod that in. Upgrading them does not add extra units, just the upgrades themselves. The downside of their recovery feature is that the newly added bodyguards are added at the lowest experience level (0) and thus overall drag their experience count down, contrary to normally retrained units which keep their experience bonus or get a +1 rarely.

[phonicsmonkey]

Mir, in your other post I suggested you use the "move_character" cheat in the console to shift that beached Khan

did you try that? if you did, you will have no doubt noticed that I made a typo in my instructions. only noticed this when I tried to use it myself the other day (a Prince of Antioch was blocking my way through a mountain pass, when I had military access - no fair!)

I have just edited my post in the other thread to correct the mistake, sorry about that

let me know if it works for you

[TheLastPrivate]

Not quite right.

1. JHI have light spear bonusses on their halberd, so are +4 vs cavalry and usually very effective against them too unless they are being charged. Dismounted landers have a +8 bonus and shields, so tend to hold up better against a unit that attempts to move through them.

2. General's units slowly recover over time and cannot be retraniend unless you mod that in. Upgrading them does not add extra units, just the upgrades themselves. The downside of their recovery feature is that the newly added bodyguards are added at the lowest experience level (0) and thus overall drag their experience count down, contrary to normally retrained units which keep their experience bonus or get a +1 rarely.

Really? How about other halberds?

Also does that mean JHI suffer from the spears < other infantry rule as well?

[mir]

Mir, in your other post I suggested you use the "move_character" cheat in the console to shift that beached Khan

did you try that? if you did, you will have no doubt noticed that I made a typo in my instructions. only noticed this when I tried to use it myself the other day (a Prince of Antioch was blocking my way through a mountain pass, when I had military access - no fair!)

I have just edited my post in the other thread to correct the mistake, sorry about that

let me know if it works for you

Ah... That explains everything!

Thanks, PhonicsMonkey! I did try it out and I was going to tell you that it didn't work. But you spotted the typo first. Will try it again later and let you know.

It seems though, that the Khan will only move once I move right next to him. I moved two stacks of mine to engage the third Mongol stack (the first two I'd annihilated already). Ended the turn with one stack next to the Khan (but still can't engage him) and the other almost within striking range of the third Mongol stack.

During the Mongol turn, the third stack attacked me. Oddly enough, I had the use of both my stacks in this battle while he had only his one stack i.e. the Khan wasn't included as reinforcements.

Destroyed that stack and voila! The Khan suddenly re-positioned himself neatly on the opposite river bank! And in range of Tblisi!

And that's the situation I'm in now...

[phonicsmonkey]

Sorry about that misleading info

that's the problem with the internet, all care and no responsibility right?

he sounds stubbornly bugged. if you are able to move him he may wake up, but he may just sit passively wherever he ends up - I've seen that before

[TheLastPrivate]

But anyway, the general rule of thumb against the mongols:

Your infantry troops probably want a shield.

[FactionHeir]

Really? How about other halberds?

Also does that mean JHI suffer from the spears < other infantry rule as well?

All halberd units have the light spear bonus of +4.

And yes, you want high defense units with high morale against mongols.

[Ciaran]

Really? How about other halberds?

Also does that mean JHI suffer from the spears < other infantry rule as well?

Browsing through Export_descr_units, the other halberd units also eem to get that +4 bonus against cavalry. I´m not sure whether there is a malus involved with spear units against other infantry, but it shouldn´t matter all that much, JHI should have a high enough attack as it is and they get the AP bonus, which makes them deadly enough.

[Old Geezer]

FactionHeir, how do you know that the replacements for lost general bodyguards come in at zero experience? I've had very many times when a general has lost half the men and never noticed a loss in experience.

[DVX BELLORVM]

The General bodyguard's replacements do have a zero exp. It's most noticeable in the battle when they are engaged in heavy combat, loosing many man and gaining experience in the process. After the battle, they will gradually lose this experience as their ranks are filled with new, unexperienced men.

[FactionHeir]

What Dux said.

You don't usually notice this "feature" unless you lost most of your bodyguard unit and it was at high experience.

[mir]

Mir, in your other post I suggested you use the "move_character" cheat in the console to shift that beached Khan

did you try that? if you did, you will have no doubt noticed that I made a typo in my instructions. only noticed this when I tried to use it myself the other day (a Prince of Antioch was blocking my way through a mountain pass, when I had military access - no fair!)

I have just edited my post in the other thread to correct the mistake, sorry about that

let me know if it works for you

Hey Phonics Monkey, I tried your tips this weekend. It didn't work. Either that or I did it wrong..

Followed your directions exactly: Click on spot on map, type in as above, I noted down the coordinates. Then I selected the enemy general. And typed "move_character this 272,166" but message came up saying "err - no character exists".

It seems the problem is when I click on a character (army and character stats appear), at that point he is selected. But to type the words, I have to click on the console (you know, the bit that comes up after we press ` key). Maybe by clicking the console, it automatically de-selects the character. Hence registers as no character selected...

With the console open, when I select a character and try to type, the letters I type no longer appear in the console. Instead, they work as hotkeys for the game...

Alternatively, maybe because the Khan is stuck in the river (and no units can target him) so it works for the console.

[FactionHeir]

Don't use "this" with the move_character command. Use his full name.

[phonicsmonkey]

yeah, sorry about that

use his name like FH said

sheesh, you can't rely on anything I say eh?

[mir]

Ah... I guessed as much. Hehe.

So if his name is "Khan Ogadei the Cruelly Smelling of Fermented Mare's Milk" (or somesuch), I have to use the whole name? With the spaces?

Sorry, I'm a very anal-ysing person. I need very detailed and accurate directions or I'll get lost miserably (I once even got lost in Venice with a map!)...

[TheLastPrivate]

the move_character cheat only seems to work sparingly for me... you have to use his name before the titles, so if you have no idea what his last name was before he got "the cruel, the pious, the man, whatever", then i doubt u can use the move_character cheat...

[FactionHeir]

Ah... I guessed as much. Hehe.

So if his name is "Khan Ogadei the Cruelly Smelling of Fermented Mare's Milk" (or somesuch), I have to use the whole name? With the spaces?

Sorry, I'm a very anal-ysing person. I need very detailed and accurate directions or I'll get lost miserably (I once even got lost in Venice with a map!)...

In that case you'd use:
move_character Ogadei x y

If it does not work, check the campaign script file for his last name.