Greatly disappointing

[dual939]

When I found the English army under my TOTAL control while playing the Teutonic Knights scenario in M2 Kingdoms, I was very pleased. Finally the designers let the player mix armies from different factions on the same battlefield, with total control; not the hokey card control with three less than effective battle commands, but control as is in playing the second faction's units as your own.

And so I figured that if I took the Stainless Steel mod 5.1 of Kingdoms, set up four human players and played them all by myself, with the proper alliances and maneuvering into position, I would be able to do the same thing: get to control my own army as well as my allied army. Sadly, that was not the case. What I got was the old choice of the three command card 'controls', or just the old fashioned AI method...you know, the one where the archers don't bother to use their bows, but rather charge as if they were heavy infantry. This three command card 'controls' limit is not Stainless Steel's fault. They are without any blame: You can't use what the designers didn't give you. As a matter of fact, without the SS folks' mod work, I wouldn't bother playing this game at all.

Greatly disappointing.

If I could have any one thing I would change about this otherwise perfect bestest gee wiz of all time RTS games, it would be just that. The ability to use and command directly, all allied armies on the field. I don't mean over 20 units. Just that, within the 20 unit limit, if I had say, 10 of my faction's units and 10 of my ally's units, why that would be just swell!

As I am well over fifty years old, my memory is a little dim about my early play of TW Shogun: But if I remember rightly, this feature used to be available. But perhaps I am only dreaming. In any case it should be available and I know from the Teutonic/English scenario in Kingdoms that it can be done.

So my question is: Is there some trick which can be used to get this to work?
Could some very capable mod group mod it to work? - Stainless Steel perhaps? Or, do I just give up and be happy with - at least- the ability to play several factions at once on the strategic level?

[FactionHeir]

As far as I am aware, the English noble is given temporarily to the Teuton faction rather than a controllable reinforcement from an ally. That is possible without Kingdoms too really.

As for what you are asking, no it is not possible.

[dual939]

As far as I am aware, the English noble is given temporarily to the Teuton faction rather than a controllable reinforcement from an ally. That is possible without Kingdoms too really.

As for what you are asking, no it is not possible.

Welcome to the Org, dual939.

I'm not a modding expert myself, but you can probably find the answers you're looking for here. Good luck!

Either I do not understand your reply, which is likely, or you misunderstand my point. Regardless of whether the English noble is given temporarily or permanently, the fact is, it is from another faction. So unless I am further confused, it means he came from another file, which means that the co-mingling - mixing- of faction units is possible...No?

Furthermore it always surprises me how little feedback I receive on my posts, whether I have a question, in which case I have a less than one in ten chance of getting any cogent reply, or in trying to find anyone to help with a problem. In either case I guess that most folks are too busy playing, and those who otherwise know the answers to technical mod questions want to keep the info to a small circle of friends. This makes the task for a nu be of doing modding beyond the ancillary, trait, or unit files almost impossible.

Although not unique to the gamer/mod community, it is sadly becoming more the norm.

Yes, I have more than one great disappointment.
But I keep the topic-for-post list short.

[Lusted]

Either I do not understand your reply, which is likely, or you misunderstand my point. Regardless of whether the English noble is given temporarily or permanently, the fact is, it is from another faction. So unless I am further confused, it means he came from another file, which means that the co-mingling - mixing- of faction units is possible...No?

In game files term, he's not from another faction, he's part of the Teutonic Order, but just looks English, has English name, and has English looking units. That's it. As far as the game's concerned he's part of the Order.

[SigniferOne]

He's part of the Order but the units are not. All those English Feudal Knights, are not recruitable under Teutonic buildings.

[Myrddraal]

Hello dual939, have you considered that it's not too endearing to tell everyone how disappointed you are in their lack of posts? The attitude is a little bit negative, and condescending.

those who otherwise know the answers to technical mod questions want to keep the info to a small circle of friends. This makes the task for a nu be of doing modding beyond the ancillary, trait, or unit files almost impossible.

Perhaps you would care to take a glance in the guides forums and look at the vast array of guides, tutorials, and fan made tools that make modding possible at all. There's almost no knowledge of modding which isn't documented. When you've contributed to that resource, you can begin judging those who've put in a considerable amount of time to help new modders.

In any case, sorry I can't help you I'm a RTW modder myself, and welcome to the .org. I sincerely hope you get to appreciate the people here more over time. You'll find (certainly in my experience) that they are some of the friendliest and most open people on the net.

[dual939]

I think perhaps your phrase "the vast array of guides, tutorials, and fan made tools that make modding possible at all" may be telling. I also have a considerable list of posts containing the many many questions I have asked over the past year or so regarding from how to wade through the "vast array" , find any , any at all, advice on where to go to get answers, and a far shorter list of cogent replies.

One answer I shall always cherish is the chap who told me I have not been around long enough, nor produced enough posts to rate any kind of cogent reply. (!)

Indeed, my questions were often met with a scolding to not ask using one's personal email as they always monitor the site and answer all questions. So I let some posts sit for months , waiting for any reply...and am still waiting.

But perhaps you are correct. I must be making this all up.

If you are telling me to wade though the vast array, I must sadly tell you that I do not have that much time. I tried. But I found I had questions. Questions the vest texts did not seem to answer, and I had no idea where to go to get some idea about where to go to get an answer of where to go. Hours of time spent got me to those questions. And when I found no one willing to answer them, I finally gave up.
And those of you who have been around this site or the other TW related sites for a while may have no idea how massive ( the vast array of guides, tutorials, ...) it is. The tone of reply is often condescending or at least impatient with one who is new, eager to learn, desiring to contribute, and naive enough to think such efforts, although novice, will be appreciated.

Note in point was my failed effort to find out how the unit files and their associated ui files articulate. But I've got more.

When a site ranks their members by how many thousands of posts they have done, and uses anagrams to explain other anagrams, and abbreviations to define other abbreviations, one can only get a strong sense of the vast array he is entering.

But perhaps I am just too simple minded: This is a culling process, and those how cannot cut (through) the mustard, surely could never contribute anything to the community. OK , I get it now.

The other gripe is folks with high modding credentials telling me that strategic map movement could not be modded and I should give up trying to make a mod to change siege equipment movement. Only the CA folks could make that change...Then a month later i found no less than three mods came out which have changed strategic map movement!.... some done by some of the very chaps who told me it couldn't be done.

So, why do I think that these sites have become exclusionary, and a little self-righteous...You tell me. I never appreciated condescension as an art form, until I ran into TW modding sites.

[Myrddraal]

Are you talking about this site, or "sites in general" because if you are merely venting your frustration on the patrons here then I might understand where you're coming from.

Ironically, my third post on this forum was in a similar vein to yours.

When a site ranks their members by how many thousands of posts they have done, and uses anagrams to explain other anagrams, and abbreviations to define other abbreviations, one can only get a strong sense of the vast array he is entering.

You are surely not referring to this site if you think that the number of posts is how members are judged. This is one of few forums (in fact, the only forum I know of) where membership and membership level is not based on post count, but based on the judgement by the moderators of the contribution to the forums by each member. In one of the threads you contributed to (the vassal thread) the helpful junior member who explained the process became a full member before his 10th post.

You are frustrated by how hard it is to learn to mod, and to get top quality explanations from people, but you have to remember a few things.

One of those is that not everyone knows everything, and when they don't know, will tend not to reply rather than say "I don't know"

A second thing to remember is that if you ask how to do something that is not possible, many people will assume that it is possible, but they don't know how, and so won't reply.

and thirdly and most importantly, remember that this is a discussion forum, not a group of tutors. You say you are greatly dissapointed, as if this is a service that has let you down.

I have read through all your posts here now. You were warmly welcomed in the Entrance Hall thready, if the responses you got in the vassal thread were greatly dissapointing then I'm amazed. Your question about anno domini is a typical case of people not knowing what you're asking. You're asking about problems using MedManager, nobody else has experienced the same problem as you, and so nobody can help you. As for your frustration in the "re my MOD" thread, sombody pointed you to the right forum, which was not the TWCenter forum by the way. The unpacking thread; your question was answered, and you didn't return, I assume it was ok, same goes for the adoption question.

From this point onwards, you have taken a very negative approach to posting here. You post in the wrong forum (the descriptions are below the names of the forums, you couldn't have got there without seeing it) asking about hotseat, and decide to inform a new member of how unhelpfull everyone around here is. You yourself are contributing the least helpful reply.

This is not a service, it is a forum, where everybody contributes.

You are dissapointed with the help you have been given, yet provide no help for anyone else. Can you imagine, if you met some people on the street, and asked them a list of questions, how they would react if you proceeded to lecture them on how unhelpful they are when they can't help you? It would be absolutely outrageous behaviour.

Be civil to others, try to be positive, and be patient when you don't get help, this forum is made up of real people, who are just like you when they log on to this forum. This is not a client to buisness relationship, it is a place to discuss the games you love with like-minded people.

I hope you will find that in general, the people here are nice enough, and can be helpful, before you make more sweeping judgements of a collection of total war fans gathered to discuss what they enjoy.




PS
Could this thread please be split and moved either to the Watchtower or the Entrance Hall. This has nothing to do with modding questions.

[dual939]

Are you talking about this site, or "sites in general" because if you are merely venting your frustration on the patrons here then I might understand where you're coming from.

.

Sorry, my bad.

It was in fact a general rant. I apologize to all who wasted their time reading it. I am very grateful to all those who mod these fantastic games. I thought at first I could contribute. But the learning curve for getting around this TW world, trying to learn how the files are related, for one of the best and seemingly easy to use game editors I have ever seen, and sorting out the various sites has been too much for this old and ever shrinking man-brain.

Case in point is the fact that I didn't even know that I was looking at three separate sites! And trying to get answers from one by looking for them through another. But even when I sorted that out I realized it was not at this site where I got the cold shoulder. So again I am sorry for the burn.

Since I have the time, money, and interest, I thought this modding idea was just what I could do to pay back some of the effort that has been made by others. But I seem to have gotten to taking up and wasting a lot of good folks' time which would otherwise be spent helping out those who appreciate it and have the faculty for its benefit.

Perhaps some day, when I can stand not playing the game, I will gird up and try wading through all this again. But although this site has been warm and somewhat tolerant, I cannot say you are standard fare in the TW modding world. Perhaps just a cut above.


Again, sorry for the burn.

[Myrddraal]

Well all I'll say is; there's no need to give up yet!

If you want to start modding, I personally think it's best to start by focussing on one aspect of the game. For me that was the campaign map.

If you can try your hand first at editing existing regions, then adding new regions, then moving/adding generals and buildings, then eventually you can make a new campaign map.

This is what got me going with modding, the rest came later, when I had a better idea of what was and was not possible.

I can refer you to my guide on campaign map editing; I wrote it for RTW, but as M2TW is an evolution of RTW I believe all of what I wrote still applies.

However, I think Alpaca adapted my guide for M2 somewhere, I'll get you a link if you like, that would be better.

[Myrddraal]

Ok, so apparently it was Vorge at TWCenter who adapted my guide, here's a link:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=108484

Also, have you used Alpaca's guide to setting up M2TW for modding?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=76289

EDIT: BTW, if campaign maps don't interest you ignore this, it's just the stuff that got me going, so I'm biased