Corruption of end-of-turn symbols

[irishron2004]

I have run into a problem with the end-of-turn symbols which starts with the corruption of the unit recruitment report symbol.
I have been trying to get past the point of 80 regions held without this happening.The only mod used is Spurius's BigMap. Everything else is vanilla. I have used 2 different video cards with the same results so it can be replicated.
Specs: AMD64 duo-core 4600+, 3 gig ram, 320gig hd, WinXp SP2, M2TW update3. I have tried both nVidia 7500LE video card that came with the computer and ATI x1950pro that I bought thinkig this is the problem. All files and drivers are up to date.

The only thing I can think of is a memory leak and it's in the .sd files. Is it possible that the same symbol is being called by too many handles, in this case, recruitment report, path blocked, and others I don't remember? Can the symbols in the tga files it is reading too close together and bleeding into one another? Is there a way in the preferences.cfg file to turn them off?
Thank you in advance.

Edit: I pushed my campaign a little and had this happen. I am playing as England and on a couple of the end-of-turn symbols, England's diplomat.tga was trying to overwrite them. I also had a .tga from one of the units overwrite the accept and decline symbols. My only question is why?

[irishron2004]

Note to CA and SEGA,
I even did it to your own vanilla copy. 90 regions controlled and campaign in the tank.
Now please answer this:
A. Is it graphics card even though it exceeds specs?
B. Is it cpu even though it exceeds specs?
C. Is it CA's fault for bad code and if os is it SEGA's fult for not letting them fix it?
D. Is it Nobody knows and Nobody cares?
If it is C or D, I wonder how many Medieval2 dvds are in the dump because they couldn't do what was advertized? Heck a lot of good it is to have a 100 or 200 regions modded if the campaign (memory?) limit is only 80 to 90.

[FactionHeir]

I can't offer much but a few hints:

I have played the grand campaign countless times and several times was bored enough to take over pretty much all of the world. This was without any mods except my own (which do not change graphics or regions).

Thus if you experience said problem, I would imagine it is due to the mod you are running having some bad code, not M2TW.

[irishron2004]

Are you, sir, telling me that Alpaca's M2TW mod folder is bugged? I used it to see if vanilla could hold up under the pressure of getting its memory and resources squeezed. The only thing that I changed was the EDB build times to one turn and gave 18 factions unlimited so they could beat up on each other. Both of these are not cheats as they are allowed by CA's modding rules. People who cheat do far more than this with the console commands because some just refuse to lose.
Now if this is all the damage I did, are going to tell me that taxes the game too much? If that is so, bye bye mods.

[FactionHeir]

Actually I think it might more likely be the BigMap mod you are using.

[irishron2004]

Actually I think it might more likely be the BigMap mod you are using.

I used the game's original map. I tried the bigmap and then I went back to the game's small map and I get the same results. As I said in my last post I only changed two files. Even though my experiences in such things are different than yours, I believe the fault lies elsewhere. Where would you look next?

[FactionHeir]

Hmmm well, errorlog first and foremost.

Add this to your config file and mark read only:
[log]
to = logs/errorlog.txt
level = * error

Then in the game, toggle_fow and show AI moves. Then end turn and see what happens. Check where/when the problem exactly occurs.
Then after it occurs and/or your game crashes, check the generated errorlog file.

[irishron2004]

Toggle_fow I have not tried. I always have it setup to follow ai moves. The errorlog is empty when I get back to it. From what I have read, the error does not record graphics errors, and if you can prove me wrong please do so because I am still learning, this is one case where the syslog does not help.

[FactionHeir]

Hiya.

Syslog and errorlog are slightly different. Syslog records absolutely everything (even stuff that is broken and doesn't affect the game). Errorlog records only errors in files.
Usually, graphics errors are only recorded there if the file it is loading from is corrupted or has some misplaced code. If the errorlog is empty, its most likely an issue with the savegame (save being corrupted).

with toggle_fow and AI moves, you can check when the error exactly occurs. Sometimes its a result of a corrupted Ai stack doing some action that causes the error.

[irishron2004]

My log is set level = * error. How about level = * trace? I forgot where I read it a long time ago when M2TW was released, how can I turn on both error and trace and would it be worthwhile i your opinion?

[FactionHeir]

Trace includes error, its basically the amount/sensitivity of output you want really.
I wouldn't think it to be very worthwhile however, as something that is not an error can be just another game quirk that really is completely unrelated but could lead you down a false track.

What I would suggest is that you go through the steps I outlined earlier. If that doesn't help any more, think of whether you had used different files (or file versions of files) during the progress of your campaign. Those tend to have a lasting effect at times.
Also, some files affect a savegame permanently, namely those in the data\world folder. If any of those files had an issue when you started your game, that error will show up sooner or later and be inevitable.

[irishron2004]

Okay, I'll do it this way. I am going to keep a few more notes in the mean time for future reference.
I do have one more question. A while back I ran into a thread in one of the forums, whether here, .com, TWC, for something called a "slow crash". Have you heard of it and if you have could you enlighten me?

[FactionHeir]

Hmmmm I have no idea what "slow crash" means. Never heard of it.
I suppose if you know details about it, I might do.

[irishron2004]

I tried using "search" a few times but no results. Like it disappeared off the map with a server crash one time or another. Thanks anyway.

[irishron2004]

Trace includes error, its basically the amount/sensitivity of output you want really.
I wouldn't think it to be very worthwhile however, as something that is not an error can be just another game quirk that really is completely unrelated but could lead you down a false track.

What I would suggest is that you go through the steps I outlined earlier. If that doesn't help any more, think of whether you had used different files (or file versions of files) during the progress of your campaign. Those tend to have a lasting effect at times.
Also, some files affect a savegame permanently, namely those in the data\world folder. If any of those files had an issue when you started your game, that error will show up sooner or later and be inevitable.

It's not the mod, it's the game itself. I just left a note on the M2TW hardware thread in the Citadel with the info. Since you seem to have good luck with vanilla, would you like a copy of a couple of my last savegames to see if it happens to you?

[alpaca]

You might want to try running the game without file_first and without a mod folder, with the vanilla map. The sd files are known to bug about, especially in mod folders.

[irishron2004]

You might want to try running the game without file_first and without a mod folder, with the vanilla map. The sd files are known to bug about, especially in mod folders.

It is plain version 1.02 without mod folders, no unpacking, no io.file_first. Pure vanilla, map, EDB, EDU. It's all CA's. I Uninstalled and reinstalled everything to get rid of any trace of mods and it still happens. Do you want a copy of my last save games to try it on your machine to see if it is me? Remember, I am down to pure vanilla so it should be pretty easy to run.

[FactionHeir]

Have you started the game (i.e. the the game the save refers to) under a modded install?
Asking because a lot of data is saved permanently into the first save file (and thus all subsequent ones regardless of which mods you install and get rid of in the process), and you can wipe your hard drive, play on a different computer and the game would still be affected by what was saved into it at the very beginning.

[irishron2004]

Have you started the game (i.e. the the game the save refers to) under a modded install?
Asking because a lot of data is saved permanently into the first save file (and thus all subsequent ones regardless of which mods you install and get rid of in the process), and you can wipe your hard drive, play on a different computer and the game would still be affected by what was saved into it at the very beginning.

I have uninstalled Kingdoms, don't need it for this.
I have uninstalled M2TW, being the problem
I have deleted the C:\SEGA folder to get rid of I hope any problems including savegames, mods, etc.
I ran a registry cleaner to get rid of the garbage.
I defragged the disk to get files back where they belong.
I rebooted the system to clean out he memory.
I reinstalled M2TW.
I installed M2TW update 2.
I have not done anything else to it since but play a campaign as the English.
I believe that is as close to a clean install as anyone can get. Is this much agreed? Then if this is true and the savegames I have are from this install, no previous ones, they should be clean of any previous garbage. The offer still stands to send you the saves. I would like you to try them for a second opinion of which is one I do respect.

[FactionHeir]

Upload it on the tw uploader and post the resulting link here.

[irishron2004]

Upload it on the tw uploader and post the resulting link here.

http://files.filefront.com/M2TW+Save.../fileinfo.html. Since TW has a file size limit and this is 3mb I did this way. I hope you don't mind. All this after losing power for four hours and phone line for another six.

Thank you for doing this.

[wilddog]

There is a memory size limitation tied to the .SD files which will cause a memory leak. However if you are using vanilla now that can't be your problem.

What does the log file set as trace say for the bit reading in the shared.sd file. ie what size is it?

[irishron2004]

There is a memory size limitation tied to the .SD files which will cause a memory leak. However if you are using vanilla now that can't be your problem.

What does the log file set as trace say for the bit reading in the shared.sd file. ie what size is it?

Since this game rewrites its medieval.preferences.cfg everytime the game starts, editing it is impossible. I have no mod folders so no config files for that switch there. So answer is no. Just plain old whatever the game gave me original. The last mod I used the trace switch the syslog was tremendous.

[FactionHeir]

Had a look at the saves:
1200: End turn causes stall at Egypt's turn and game is basically dead.
1202: End turn works fine but at 1204 I see the corruption you mean. Ending game then results in an unspecified error.
Errorlog doesn't show anything.

My suspicion is that your massive amount of cheated(?) florins are the cause and/or that the problem had built up from a savegame corruption some turns earlier (1200 comes to mind)

[wilddog]

Since this game rewrites its medieval.preferences.cfg everytime the game starts, editing it is impossible.

You simply create your own copy of the .cfg and use a .bat file to call it rather than the original

The last mod I used the trace switch the syslog was tremendous.

Thats why you open in Notepad and use "find"...

I see from factionheir's note that he spotted something anyway.

Sorry I was just trying to be helpful having spent a few hours yesterday and this morning resolving a problem about .SD files.

[irishron2004]

NASCAR creed from the old days of racing in the South: "If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'".
That is a legitimate text edit of the descr_strat file and can be done for every faction including slave of which can cause all sorts of havoc. I've tried as a "what if". Because you can build so much so fast with the end of turn trying to keep up with it will do the same thing. Don't want it above a certain amount lower the present ceiling in the hardcode. I used it and sitll use it in RTW mods with 200 provinces and I don't have this.
I can set all the building build times in the EDB to one turn and cause.
I can max out the recruitable slots to 9 and cause it.
These are all legitimate edits and if there is a memory leak because it gets exploited my me or a modder that decides he/she wants a mod on afterburners is not our fault.

So after the rant, is there a patch in the works to address this issue? Another question, is there a fix by someone that I have not seen?

I am sorry for being late to the modding world and a lot of this probably is archived someplace but I can't find it. Please bear with me through this. If you have at your disposal threads on this site or other sites covering these issues I would much appreciate the info.

[FactionHeir]

There will be no more patches for M2TW and there may with a small chance be one for Kingdoms specific issues only.

So first you say everything is vanilla and then after agreeing to test your savegame you admit to have done this and that with it in terms of modding. That isn't really helpful, you know.

[irishron2004]

Okay if that is your definition of modding I am guilty and I can live with that. Then please sit down and explain to me why just changig this one figure can cause so much grief? What are the sd memory limits? I can pull the sds apart and find out how much memory each one uses but there has to be something more concrete than that. Since this is an old issue even by alpaca's admission where is there an old thread, resource, or what have you that I can play catch up on? That is all I am asking for. After that I can set a mod within these limits and have fun.

[FactionHeir]

I don't work with sd files so can't give you an answer on that. There is a thread in the modding forum (research wiki i think) on that though.

Having played around with recruitment, build times and money scripts myself, I can safely say that I hadn't had any problems so far, as long as you do it in moderation.
Without this being any hard limit, up to 5 recruitment slots and 1 turn build times works perfectly. I imagine 9 should also be alright.
What I do think might have been your problem is the vast amount of florins. The game can't handle too large a number on those possibly (you had several tens of billions) so I would recommend staying afloat at a rate of approx 5-10k florins in total per turn. If that is too little, you can always mod the build costs to compensate or just use add_money when you need cash (which takes a few seconds of your life at best)

[alpaca]

What you're experiencing is not necessarily the same as the old problems that have been observed. Try playing with real vanilla, without any changes and see if it still happens.