Out of character thread XVIII

[GeneralHankerchief]

No finals until June here (my school wimps out on midterms, not that I'm complaining), but I do have a DBQ on the Thirty Years' War tomorrow.

I suppose that KotR has really been an extended version of that entire conflict, although I'm scared that we're in the midst of the French Period.

Also, we definitely need a version of the Defenestration of Prague.

[AussieGiant]

Hi All,

A couple of things.

OK are you sure you don't want some units recruited in Adana? Your army, in comparison to theirs, has me quite concerned.

In the latest save 1352-4 I've moved Erlach's army and the Kaiser's to bracket the French force west of Milan. If either attack the other would be reinforcements.

Anyone of the nobles in attendance could conduct this fight.

Gibson or Tristan on behalf of the Kaiser and his army, or Stuperman in the BHA (Otto I think?).

Please let me know.

Also in Magdeburg if EF can't fight then Dutch-Guy or Flydude could deputise for him potentially.

These are very winnable situations in my mind. Please let me know if anyone's interested.

Cheers
AG
P.S. and I must also state the level of battle reports has been great lately.

So Gibbo is fine with it. Tristan, Stups...

anyone....

Bueller....

Bueller...

anyone...

Bueller...

Hermann could be knighted as well...

anyone...?

[_Tristan_]

I won't be able to take the save now... As much as I would like to finally lay my hands on it...

What would be the deadline ? Perhaps I could get it in the meantime...

[AussieGiant]

Hi Tristan,

I'm going to finish up 1352 Wednesday night and have 1354 ready to roll for the next offensive season the same night.

I'm not sure which time zone you're in but I'm GMT +1 so I will be home from work from work Wednesday night around 19:30 and taking the save for good by around 20:00.

I hope that give you enough time, otherwise this situation around Milan is going to be like the Edinburgh Military Tattoo:

http://www.frontdesk.co.uk/edinburgh_tattoo

[FactionHeir]

I think Hugo isn't knighted yet and cannot fight the battle.

[_Tristan_]

I think Hugo isn't knighted yet and cannot fight the battle.

True enough... Anyway deadline was a bit short...

[econ21]

I think Hugo isn't knighted yet and cannot fight the battle.

Tristan's avatar cannot command the army in an offensive battle (i.e. be the sole general in the stack and start the battle). However, if the Kaiser is in the stack, Gibson can delegate the fighting of the battle to Tristan. With his higher command, the Kaiser would get any traits, but it would allow Tristan's avatar to get knighted and also work around Gibson's OOC constraints. It is the reason I made Tristan's avatar "tribune" in that army - it's too powerful an army to be left without a human commander. FLYdude's avatar is in Magdeburg for the same reason.

The relevant rule is in a CA in section 1, but strangely unnumbered:

OOC Charter Amendment:
(a) Where there are multiple player controlled generals in a stack, then the player who plays out the battle is determined by who the computer designates is in command.
(b) An exception is that Household Armies (and the Army of Outremer) are always commanded by the designated Commander of said army.
(c) The commanding general may allow another player to fight a battle by mutual consent for OOC reasons.

As usual my CA is loosely drafted - clause (c) should read "another player whose avatar is in the battle". We don't want to go crazy allowing proxying as that breaks the role-playing side (and makes things too easy). Under (b), we should treat the Kaiser and Prinz's armies like Household Armies - they did not exist when we passed the CA.

If Tristan can't fight the battle, we could pass on it this turn - a little sloth will make the game more challenging. (Are there no Bavarians would can fight?)

[AussieGiant]

I think Hugo isn't knighted yet and cannot fight the battle.

Correct, and that's the problem.

Tristan can you attack before Wednesday around 20:00 GMT +1?

[_Tristan_]

Nope... I would be able to do it around Wednesday 22-23 PM (GMT+1) and not sure of it...

[EDIT] And I must admit that I feel it is too great a responsibility with so many player's avatars in the line of fire for my first fight... Still I would do it if auto-resolving or letting things stand let to a more disastrous result and if time allows of course...

Or it may bring the French plan to fruition : being in a position to take down the mighty Kaiser...

[econ21]

I don't think we know Stuperman's availability yet - it would be good if he could fight it, as his avatar could benefit from any traits.

[AussieGiant]

Hi Tristan,

Thanks for the feedback but that's too late.

I guess it will be a parking lot outside Milan for the time being.

IC this is boarding on being a little nuts.

[FactionHeir]

I think being able to delegate the battle to another avatar in the stack should be fine, although it would be more prudent if used for defense rather than offense, as we do still have the clause of non knighted avatars not being able to take offensive action.

Anyway. Gah. We ought to make sure we don't have too many overlaps in future charters so we won't have to all become lawyers

[AussieGiant]

Anyway. Gah. We ought to make sure we don't have too many overlaps in future charters so we won't have to all become lawyers

I entirely agree FH, but I have the sneaky suspicion that that next PBM will be even more complex, wordy and full of legislation.

[TinCow]

I'm doing my best to prevent that, but I will admit my rules draft isn't exactly short.

[AussieGiant]

I'm doing my best to prevent that, but I will admit my rules draft isn't exactly short.

That coming from a lawyer, is truly terrifying

[TinCow]

Well, what I'm focusing on is two things:
1) Creating a complete rule set that covers all aspects of the basic feudal structure. These aren't really limits on what we can do so much as the basic setup of the world we're playing in itself. It deals with how the game works, who manages it, and what the effects are of various actions.
2) Identifying areas that shouldn't be legislated at all. I think part of our problem is that we have rules about too many aspects of the game. Everything above the basic structure of the game should be free and open to manipulation via the political process IMO. More edicts, fewer amendments.

If we want to jump back to the D&D analogy, #1 is something like the basic rules of character creation and advancement, while #2 is the specific 'adventure' we are playing. I (with a great deal of help from econ21) am trying to come up with a KOTR-version of the d20 system: a generic rule system that can be used for multiple games. It is not faction specific and has no game objective or real content of any kind. It's a structure that is simply designed to give us a sandbox-world to play around in.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'd be able to fight it later today if necessary.

[econ21]

I'd be able to fight it later today if necessary.

By the rules, we should wait for Stuperman to delegate the fighting of the battle to you. But if you haven't heard from him by the time you are available, I would just go for it. It'll probably be past the 48 hour deadline for battles so I don't think he could complain if you do just take the save and fight the battle.

The good thing about having multiple generals in a stack is that it gives the Chancellor freedom to manage the temporary unavailability of players.

[FactionHeir]

Herrmann got knighted?

[econ21]

Herrmann got knighted?

Nope - he's in the same situation as Tristan. He can sub for the army commander - Stuperman in this case. He won't get the traits, but can fight the battle.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=667

EDIT: A historical analogy would be with Marshal Ney at Waterloo - he fights the battle, Napoleon gets the credit (or not).

[AussieGiant]

Ok so that is good news regarding Milan. Thanks GH. Keep in mind gentlemen that if you look to your left when viewing Milan there are another 2 French stacks coming in from the west...the French are everywhere it seems

As for Warlusters final location this season...then I'm still very concerned about even putting him on the bridge with that whole SHA stack right behind him. What happens if they set up right on the bridge and rush him?

That will be a shocker of a battle given the reinforcements would never get there in time. To me he must set up on the back edge and take on the stack in the field...which is possible, but two??

That's more than likely what I will do though.

[econ21]

As for Warlusters final location this season...then I'm still very concerned about even putting him on the bridge with that whole SHA stack right behind him. What happens if they set up right on the bridge and rush him?

That's a valid concern. But perhaps the bridge + reinforcements would deter the AI? The French strategic AI seems strangely dilatory in Swabia - quite unlike the Byzantines elsewhere, who really seem keen to get down to it.

If the worst came to the worst and he is attacked, von Salza setting up at the back of a bridge map is one option. The bridge would buy him time to get his reinforcements. An alternative would be for him to use his escort to block the bridge exit for a while (the 2HP goes a long way) and then sacrifice a crossbow for the same end. The AI is rather slow crossing bridges and if the reinforcements run, they might make it. Three crossbows and an artillery piece could do quite a lot of violence in a bridge battle.

But if you are worried, you could just put the SHA in Staufen and move von Salza back east down the road to stack with Welf. The argument for putting von Salza on the bridge in the campaign map this turn is that his artillery is slow and ideally we would like to push on towards Dijon next turn. I think the SHA needs von Salza's crossbows and artillery before it can be of much use in supporting a sally by Ruppel. Sadly, this may mean infecting them.

BTW: Does anyone know what are the OOC implications of infected troops when the plague is over? Are they always contagious? ie must they ultimately be disbanded?

[AussieGiant]

Good thoughts Econ.

Given the AI might "awake" though, another option is to stuff the SHA back into Staufen (they are all infected anyway) and then stick Warluster on the opposite side of the Citadel to any possible French attack. Then he could come into a Citadel fight as reinforcements.

FH still has more than enough turns for a "reassessment" and second attempt at relief by Warluster and now you.

[TinCow]

BTW: Does anyone know what are the OOC implications of infected troops when the plague is over? Are they always contagious? ie must they ultimately be disbanded?

No, they will eventually become clean if they remain isolated for long enough. The difficulty is making sure that you don't re-infect clean troops and cities, but even this isn't so bad if you pay attention to who's clean and who isn't on the plague info scroll at the beginning of each turn.

[econ21]

...another option is to stuff the SHA back into Staufen (they are all infected anyway) and then stick Warluster on the opposite side of the Citadel to any possible French attack.

Good thinking.

No, they will eventually become clean if they remain isolated for long enough. The difficulty is making sure that you don't re-infect clean troops and cities, but even this isn't so bad if you pay attention to who's clean and who isn't on the plague info scroll at the beginning of each turn.

That's good to know - although I can not see a marker that identifies where a captain led stack - eg the SHA - is infected. But that won't be an issue if all our infected troops are in settlements or led by generals.

[FactionHeir]

I don't think a hasty decision should be made just yet. Warluster supposedly has read my PMs a few hours back, but he hasn't posted his opinions yet.

If it comes down to it, I would rather the SHA move as I had planned rather than fall back to Staufen. Considering Ruppel is officially the commander of the SHA, I believe I have that authority.

As for plagued units, if they are outside, they will stop being plagued after 5-6 turns. However their captain still remains plagued so combining that stack with any other or settlement will cause infection.

[AussieGiant]

That's one of the reasons I said this will be difficult to manage.

The only way to tell if a regiment is infected is to look at the commander. The regiments themselves do not have any indicator as to whether they are plagued or clean.

FH, if Warluster hasn't gotten back to you before Wednesday around 20:00 GMT +1 then please post your movement request in the orders section for the SHA.

Cheers
AG

[Ferret]

Also in Magdeburg if EF can't fight then Dutch-Guy or Flydude could deputise for him potentially.

uhhh is there actually a battle or are you just making a point? For now I'd like to let FlyDude fight some battles around here and Dutch Guy to fight the battles in Scandinavia so the two can develop their generals a bit further (and because I have exams )

[econ21]

uhhh is there actually a battle or are you just making a point?

You were asked to sally two days ago:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=479

IIRC, Dutch_guy and FLYdude are still stacked with you, so either could fight the battle instead of you. But I doubt it would build up their characters (unless one of them has a command greater than Bresch's and the computer identifies them as the leader).

[Cecil XIX]

Also, we definitely need a version of the Defenestration of Prague.

Only if I can recruit Hussites from Prague afterwards.